# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 209
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4166 "2020-09-26T19:50:27Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > If you and I both know cervical health illiteracy is epidemic among women, surely the person in charge of that guidance knows this. So I refuse to believe good intentions has anything to do with this massive dereliction of duty. Something else is happening. > > When this shitstorm got kicked off in June, my convictions on this were softer. But now I’m certain there is method to the madness. To go from “people with cervixes” to “transmen with cervixes and nameless others” is trolling. If it’s not trolling, it is indistinguishable from trolling and should be responded the same way we respond to trolls on this board. I dunno, it’s surprising what people don’t know and don’t think about sometimes. It’s easy to assume everyone else is similar to you and your friends and forget there are a lot of different people with different levels of education (and of course half of all people are of below average intelligence). But it’s true someone with the job of writing health information ought to know that the guidance is to use plain language and avoid technical terms. Just look at the inserts you get in drug packets to see how simply they are written. I’m just reluctant to attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. (And I think this board is too trigger happy at banning people and it’s becoming less interesting as a result.) > [@YWTF](#): > > If this were true, then we’d expect men’s health to be treated just like women’s health. Right? But we both know this isn’t the case. I just looked up HSE’s prostate guidance. I counted 63 matches when I did a word search for the word men. The prefix “trans” shows up _zero_ times. That doesn’t surprise me, but the prostate cancer pages were last updated in 2011, long before it became politically incorrect to open with “The prostate is a small gland in the pelvis that is found only in men.” If you asked them they’d probably apologise and say they haven’t got around to updating it yet. But if you believe something else is going on, then what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4167 "2020-09-26T19:54:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I respect her intelligence. She chooses her words carefully and she means what she says. She is a woman to be admired. She does seem to be on the rational side of this conversation. I hope those two wankers she made famous through the movies based on her HP books are already living to regret opening their dumb fucking mouths. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4168 "2020-09-26T19:56:15Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I respect her intelligence. She chooses her words carefully and she means what she says. She is a woman to be admired. I’m glad she brought the subject up, because I object to policy changes being pushed through in the shadows and with no scrutiny from all those affected. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4169 "2020-09-26T19:59:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > She does seem to be on the rational side of this conversation. I hope those two wankers she made famous through the movies based on her HP books are already living to regret opening their dumb fucking mouths. You can’t be too hard on them. If they’d stuck up for her they would have been ‘cancelled’ too, and it probably would have screwed up their careers a lot more than hers. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4170 "2020-09-26T20:03:50Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You can’t be too hard on them. If they’d stuck up for her they would have been ‘cancelled’ too, and it probably would have screwed up their careers a lot more than hers. What they should have said was nothing. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4171 "2020-09-26T20:34:18Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What they should have said was nothing. Can’t argue with that. But until recently I would have agreed with them - I’d never looked into the issue in depth or seen what the other side was really saying. Must be why some people are so eager to cancel anyone who disagrees with them and shut down debate. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4172 "2020-09-26T20:38:39Z")
Same. Until this thread, I just thought some of the stuff coming out of the trans rights movement was just cringey, but ultimately harmless. Now I’m worried that people have lost their damn minds and are trying to force the rest of us to lose ours as well… ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4173 "2020-09-26T20:55:48Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I dunno, it’s surprising what people don’t know and don’t think about sometimes. Health communicators, though? After an outpouring of women have asked HSE to reconsider their language, I would expect a correction if this was simple ignorance. Seeing a refusal to change in the face of that is what should be surprising. How difficult would it be to even get a meager “cis woman” added? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m just reluctant to attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. It’s not explainable by incompetence, though. I know you feel it _might_ be, but thats highly improbable when you look at the entire context. > [@DemonTree](#): > > That doesn’t surprise me, but the prostate cancer pages were last updated in 2011, long before it became politically incorrect to open with “The prostate is a small gland in the pelvis that is found only in men.” **If you asked them they’d probably apologise and say they haven’t got around to updating it yet.** And you would believe them? Please tell me no. How long would it take to do a global replace of “men” with “people with prostates”? That would be 5 minutes of work, tops. If it hasn’t occurred to them to do this yet, _it ain’t happening_. > [@DemonTree](#): > > But if you believe something else is going on, then what exactly? Powerful TRAs are doing this to bait women. Make women angry and agitated so that become even more visibly opposed to the gender movement. Angry and agitated people are easier to vilify. Vilified people are easier to oppress. This is why its becoming more acceptable to call us TERFs than women. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4174 "2020-09-26T21:30:27Z")
I just think Rowling has the right to an opinion and should be respected for it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4175 "2020-09-26T21:44:16Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Health communicators, though? After an outpouring of women have asked HSE to reconsider their language, I would expect a correction if this was simple ignorance. Seeing a refusal to change in the face of that is what should be surprising. How difficult would it be to even get a meager “cis woman” added? Have HSE said anything in response? The NHS did update their guidance after women complained. Now it explains what the cervix is and also says ‘women and people with a cervix’ need screening. > [@YWTF](#): > > Powerful TRAs are doing this to bait women. Make women angry and agitated so that become even more visibly opposed to the gender movement. Angry and agitated people are easier to vilify. > > Vilified people are easier to oppress. This is why its becoming more acceptable to call us TERFs than women. How do TRAs get to tell Ireland’s health service what to do? Like, not just to update their info which would be understandable, but in this theory to deliberately ignore clear communication guidelines? Funny you should say that about getting women angry though. I read an article today about how differently people perceive anger in women vs men: > **[The Times & The Sunday Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/)** > > News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4176 "2020-09-26T21:55:44Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > I just think Rowling has the right to an opinion and should be respected for it. I think we should respect everyone’s right to have an opinion, if that’s what you mean. Just as we should support everyone’s right to speak even if we don’t agree, or we think they’re an idiot. That doesn’t mean I respect everyone’s opinion, although I do respect Rowling’s, both because I respect her and because she gave well thought out reasons for it in her essay. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4177 "2020-09-26T21:55:52Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Have HSE said anything in response? > **[HSE defends removing references to ‘women’ in online cervical cancer information](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-defends-removing-references-to-women-in-online-cervical-cancer-information-1.4357438)** > > Webpage about screening programme refers to ‘anyone with a cervix’ ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4178 "2020-09-27T00:53:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Take a look at this terrifying story from Ireland: Just came across an update on this story. Good news; this batshit dangerous person is in custody and is not scheduled for release in the near future as originally planned. Bad news: they could possibly self-identify their way into women’s prison. > **[Photo: Barbie Kardashian, Ireland's "homicidal girl" - Gript](https://gript.ie/photo-barbie-kardashian-irelands-homicidal-girl/)** > > "danger to the public" ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4179 "2020-09-27T01:01:32Z")
They look like a scary evil clown. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4180 "2020-09-27T01:04:59Z")
Of the we all float down here variety. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4181 "2020-09-27T02:36:56Z")
Well, it’s official now. [https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-will-house-transgender-inmates-by-15600137.php?utm\_source=dlvr.it&utm\_medium=twitter](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-will-house-transgender-inmates-by-15600137.php?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter) ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4182 "2020-09-27T04:07:26Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Well, it’s official now. Well I guess that’s as good a reason as any to avoid going to prison. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4183 "2020-09-27T05:06:42Z")
I approach this like a gay male femme, who has always been femme but also has always been male. We recognize this identity among gay males, that some identify as femme while also considering themselves male. Except in my case I don’t happen to be attracted to male folks. And we don’t have a socially shared notion of a femme male who is NOT trans and also NOT gay. I found validation in radical feminism in the early 1980s when the GLBT scene, such as it was, didn’t seem like a home for me. I’ve switched allegiances because it is now the LGBTQIA+ scene, (or MOGII as many of us prefer) and it’s more inclusive. And because the feminist scene never really opened up a space for male folks who wanted out of “manhood” even though theoretically they had conceptual space for that. ALL of this is complicated and trying to make litmus tests and say “you are bad if you don’t agree this is so” concerns me as reductionistic. But over and over again it seems like the folks who gravitate towards the gender critical and/or trans exclusive branch of rad fem aren’t making any attempt to reach out and negotiate. I’m not saying trans activists have always been oh so open to doing so themselves (because they’ve often been not only hostile but self-congratulatory violent about it) but yeesh… if I have to pick a side, which I don’t want to do, but if I have to, I’m in with my transgender sisters. But I’m a critical feminist voice from within that space. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4184 "2020-09-27T07:03:12Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Finally! That means John of Arc will be able to get the recognition he deserves 😉 There are people out there who try to claim Joan of Arc was trans, believe it or not. Speculation over whether or not she was a lesbian isn’t anything new, but the idea that she was trans sounds insane. Yes, there have been trans people throughout history. I don’t think anyone would say otherwise. I think that people are talking about the idea that anyone whoever deviated from gender roles ever so slightly is now assumed to be trans. Obviously I don’t think anyone is talking about someone like Billy Tipton here. As I said before, transgenderism isn’t a very easy concept to understand. It’s also not so black or white, and I don’t think anyone expressing concerns or having questions automatically makes you a TERF or a transphobe. (As far as bathrooms, I don’t care if you’re cis or trans, just make sure you fucking FLUSH, and don’t piss all over the seat.) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4185 "2020-09-27T08:57:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What they should have said was nothing. Ah, I think that is wishful thinking. When all around you are choosing to go on the attack, anything less than full-throated and unquestioning response will mark you out as part of the problem. Won’t matter if you are taking that stand due reason, compassion, political concerns, moral/ethical concerns. Their silence would be interpreted as “problematic”. The game is rigged to ensure that you must play, and the only way to win is to join the side that is pre-ordained by the vocal crowd to be the winners. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=208) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=210)