# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 219
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4366 "2020-10-01T21:22:26Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I mean, JKR has been threatened with “girl dick rape” thousands of time over. By whom? By people with “girl dicks”. Or random assholes. Or Russian trolls. Or Trumpers trying to make trans people look bad. Or who knows? These are random internet people we’re talking about. Hundreds or even thousands of links to tweets from random internet people strikes me as no particularly useful information. Just the ubiquitous, disgusting, racist, misogynist, transphobic, etc., background noise of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4367 "2020-10-01T21:36:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You know what, lets not focus on the analogy that you don’t like. Instead perhaps you can acknowledge the issue with the rhetorical form you’ve repeatedly used that I and @YWTF have called out. In some discussions, sure. But why is personal experience a problem in this one? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4368 "2020-10-01T21:37:48Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I don’t disagree that you sympathize with feminism, as least one strain of it. Feminism isn’t just one-deminsional. On the subject of gender, lib fems and gender critical rad fems hold diametrically opposite beliefs. I identify as a radical feminist. It has elicited some knee-jerk hostile reaction from trans people who _immediately_ start calling me TERF. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4369 "2020-10-01T21:41:21Z")
You are a random person on the internet. What reason is there to take your anecdotal accounts about trans-people you know more seriously than the various tweets you dismiss with a wave of the hand. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But why is personal experience a problem in this one? > [@YWTF](#): > > But @QuickSilver has a valid point about why repeated references to “that has not been my experience” can be exhausting, particularly when the person saying this is among the more privileged. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4370 "2020-10-01T21:45:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You are a random person on the internet. What reason is there to take your anecdotal accounts about trans-people you know more seriously than the various tweets you dismiss with a wave of the hand. Exactly! What I’ve offered is pretty much identical to what has been offered throughout this thread, when it comes to characterizing the attitudes of trans people, trans allies, or trans activists, as a group. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4371 "2020-10-01T21:49:54Z")
Maybe it’s possible that the trans people I interact with are just unusually wonderful people, and not representative. But in order to believe that, I’d need to see some sort of actual evidence – maybe a scientific, repeatable and repeated poll that shows that XX% of trans people believe that rape threats are appropriate for JKR. But just random tweets and such? That’s not evidence. That’s just the internet. With sufficient time, I could find hundreds or thousands of people on twitter who say they’re black and who love Trump. This gives us zero information about actual black support for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4372 "2020-10-01T22:01:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe it’s possible that the trans people I interact with are just unusually wonderful people, and not representative. I would suspect that most **people** you interact with are wonderful people, and trans people just happen to be part of that set of wonderful people. If someone was toxic, I would guess you would not really interact with them very much regardless of their gender identity. I only interacted regularly with two transwomen (they were coworkers), but I would describe their communication style much more as similar to males than females. They both had the common male communication style of dominating the conversation, mansplaining, interrupting, talking endlessly without concern that the other person was not interested, etc. I’m not sure if that rises to the level of “toxic”, but I would guess that it would be off-putting to most women just like it is when it comes from men. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4373 "2020-10-01T22:12:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe it’s possible that the trans people I interact with are just unusually wonderful people, and not representative. A person’s circle of friends is statistically unlikely to be representative of anything except their circle of friends. Perhaps you simply are not the sort of person who associates with assholes, which is of course to your immense credit. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4374 "2020-10-01T22:17:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Or random assholes. Or Russian trolls. Or Trumpers trying to make trans people look bad. Or who knows? These are random internet people we’re talking about. Hundreds or even thousands of links to tweets from random internet people strikes me as no particularly useful information. Just the ubiquitous, disgusting, racist, misogynist, transphobic, etc., background noise of the internet. Many of the accounts associated with these threats as associated with known trans activists. Tell me, though. If the abuse has been sourced by shit stirring Russian trolls and other imposters, can you point me to any trans activists who have issued statements strongly and unequivocally disavowing these threats? Have they done anything to temper the feelings of those in the community who might be encouraged towards violence by these supposedly fake threats? I’ve seen nothing like this. What about the vandalism and attempts to defund and defame the Vancouver rape shelter? Just run of the mill background noise too? Destroying a refuge for female rape victims sounds awfully misogynistic to me, and it was perpetrated by activists you’re now excusing. You are in denial if you refuse to see this for what it is. Wake up please. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4375 "2020-10-01T22:25:10Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > If the abuse has been sourced by shit stirring Russian trolls and other imposters, can you point me to any trans activists who have issued statements strongly and unequivocally disavowing these threats? Have they done anything to temper the feelings of those in the community who might be encouraged towards violence by these supposedly fake threats? I’ve seen nothing like this. This was trivially easy to find: > **[Trans activists write to Sun condemning JK Rowling abuse story](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/15/trans-and-non-binary-activists-write-to-sun-in-support-of-jk-rowling)** > > Letter says they disagree with author on gender, but paper’s front page was “abhorrent” There are many more such links on the first few pages of searching Google. And tons more random internet people expressing similar sentiments - maybe critical of some of what JKR said, but unequivocally denouncing threats and violence and such. > [@](#): > > What about the vandalism and attempts to defund and defame the Vancouver rape shelter? Just run of the mill background noise too? Destroying a refuge for female rape victims sounds awfully misogynistic to me, and it was perpetrated by activists you’re now excusing. I would never excuse such behavior. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4376 "2020-10-01T22:28:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This was trivially easy to find: This was an article criticizing the Sun, not the torrent of “suck my girl cock, bitch” hatred directed by her by the online mob. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4377 "2020-10-01T22:29:32Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > This was an article criticizing the Sun, not the torrent of “suck my girl cock, bitch” hatred directed by her by the online mob. The Sun published a defense of violence against JKR. And these trans activists strongly denounced it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4378 "2020-10-01T22:41:23Z")
Do you take the same view of abuse other women have reported receiving for more mainstream feminist views? That it could be Russian trolls or unrepresentative people, but anyway says nothing about men or society? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4379 "2020-10-01T22:44:25Z")
Of course not. And the threats against JKR reveal, once again, the incredible misogyny in our society. I’m disputing that random tweets tell us anything about the views of trans people or trans activists as a group, not that there isn’t widespread misogyny. Our society is catastrophically and monumentally misogynistic (as well as racist, homophobic, transphobic, and more) and it’s fucking disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4380 "2020-10-01T22:47:12Z")
I don’t see any reason to believe that twitter threads about JKR (or anything else) are any more representative than “people Andy knows”. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4381 "2020-10-01T23:05:08Z")
If I pointed to the existence of Twitter threads full of racist commentary to support my belief racism is still a social problem, I now expect that you will dismiss the significance of this observation because “people Andy knows” aren’t racist. But excuse me for not being impressed by this logic. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4382 "2020-10-01T23:08:11Z")
Misogyny is an utterly massive problem in our society. The threats against JKR are a great example of this. I’m unconvinced that this tells us anything about misogyny in the trans community or among trans activists (beyond that yes, it probably exists in greater than zero trans people and activists). Do you see the difference in what I’m saying? For another example, I know tons of racists, tons of misogynists, tons of transphobes, etc. The vast majority are white men. There is indeed a huge problem of racism, misogyny, transphobia, etc., among white men, based on my experience AND tons of polling and other factual evidence. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4383 "2020-10-01T23:56:27Z")
This is kind of a hijack, but why white men in particular? Aren’t women equally likely to be racist, men of all races to be misogynist, and any heterosexual to be homo- or transphobic? Is it just safer to rail against white men? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4384 "2020-10-01T23:58:21Z")
Not by the data I’ve seen, at least in the US. IIRC, white men are one of the few demographics that still approves of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4385 "2020-10-02T00:10:10Z")
For the purposes of this discussion I’m prepared to include ‘white men in the US who support Trump’ as part of the population sample that belongs to the set of “people Andy knows”, therefore lacking sufficient representation to support the argument in favor of the trans community being less misogynist. I dismiss it thus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=218) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=220)