# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 226
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4506 "2020-10-04T17:41:06Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > RE is allowed to talk about his lived experience as a gay male, because it’s seen as his right. When JKR talks about her lived experience as a woman, she’s called “incendiary” and painted as a TERF. Yes, the public reaction to a statement from the worlds most famous author, and a guy who was a supporting character in Julia Roberts movie in the 90s, should absolutely receive exactly the same level of public reaction, and the fact that it hasn’t is certainly down to sexism, and not the fact that Rupert Evert is barely a C list celebrity. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4507 "2020-10-04T17:46:17Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I don’t know, this thread has exhausted me. It is exhausting. I gave your last post a hard time and I’m sorry for that. The false equivalencies and backwards analogies are frustrating as fuck. I’m tired of watching white people in this thread use racism as their go-to gotcha yas, when they aren’t on the business end of that particular gun. And I’m tired of straight people demonizing homosexuals for not being accepting of heterosexuals inviting themselves into their most intimate spaces. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4508 "2020-10-04T17:50:32Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > My example was more geared toward people being angry that someone IS dating someone of a darker (or lighter) skin tone than is. If no black women are ever angry that a beautiful black brother is with a white woman, or black men never slam a gorgeous black women for dating white, well, I’ll happily admit the bigotry is all on the white side of things. We aren’t talking about this kind of dynamic with lesbians and transwomen. We’re talking about lesbians being verbally attacked by transwomen because lesbians don’t want to tangle with “girl dick”. To have a parallel with what you’re talking about, we would need to be talking about ciswomen who are upset that other ciswomen are dating transwomen to the exclusion of ciswomen. I’m unaware that this is happening. Of course transwomen are allowed to their feelings. Hurt feelings are par for the course in the dating game. But once they start hurling “transphobe” at someone who doesn’t want to have sex with someone with private parts they aren’t attracted to, they aren’t acting like a normal, everyday reasonable person. They are acting like someone who feels entitled to sex with whomever they want. “TRANSPHOBE” seems like an apt response to someone like that, although I agree it is provocative. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4509 "2020-10-04T17:54:09Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I did happen across a bit a kerfuffle in the gay community, about whether or not “queer” is a word to embrace. Some gay men used it happily, others for mad. There was some rancor, but outside looking in, I didn’t see how bad it got. My friends involved were pissed, but I stayed out. Queer is just too easy for straight people to appropriate. See this headline in P\*nk News, which could equally have appeared in The Onion: > As for the rest, people have different opinions and we are still working it out. > [@raventhief](#): > > I think Barbie Kardashian will be a danger or in danger no matter what. Even if Barbie were a ciswoman, she would be in danger more than a man in prison, since women are assaulted more by fellow inmates than men are. If Barbie was a cis-woman, she’d probably be self-harming rather than threatening harm to others. I daresay it’s happened in some time and place, but I have never heard a cis-woman threaten to rape other women. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4510 "2020-10-04T18:05:04Z")
I get the point you’re making, but it’s really fucked up for one simple reason: there aren’t that many women that have made it to the top like JKR has. So any woman who aspires to be the greatest whatever and happens to share JKR’s concerns has learned an important lesson this past year. “Keep your damn mouth shut and take the money.” Meanwhile, men get to pontificate as much as they want. Either they are at the top already and can’t really be canceled. Or they are a B-list celebrity like Rupert Everett and not worth canceling. Must be nice to be a man and never have to worry about being kind and courteous all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4511 "2020-10-04T18:06:17Z")
Would it make you feel better if I told Everett to go fuck himself? Because he can absolutely go fuck himself. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4512 "2020-10-04T18:08:36Z")
No, it wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4513 "2020-10-04T18:08:46Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > You’re really committed to demonizing JKR, aren’t you? It makes no sense to equate the downplaying of trans oppression with saying only females have periods, but look at that. You just did that. Didn’t read part after where the quote was snipped? JKR said that if trams people were oppressed, she’d march. Since she’s not marching, I’m guessing that’s “downplaying trans oppression”. I’m not going to research everything any one celebrity ever said about trans in a thread about JKR. I’m not committed to demonizing anyone. And I admitted that there is a lot of misogyny, _and that results in women getting more shit than men_ . It’s_no doubt_ a factor in the whole thing. I agree with that! Am I a a misogynist for having an issue with what she said? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4514 "2020-10-04T18:09:53Z")
Also, if you would be so kind, remind me of the ways Rowling’s been “cancelled” again? Have her books been pulled from the shelves? Have any movies based on her works been shut down? Which HP video games aren’t being produced because Rowling is a bigot? Seems she’s just as cancel proof as any famous, successful man. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4515 "2020-10-04T18:10:15Z")
I posted a study a loooong time ago in this thread (feels like 100 years ago) that said female inmates are sexually assaulted in prison more than their male counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4516 "2020-10-04T18:11:16Z")
I posted one pointing out that 1 in 2 trans inmates are sexually assaulted, but apparently sexual assault is only bad when it happens to cis women. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4517 "2020-10-04T18:16:15Z")
If you read for comprehension, you’d see that I’m not talking about JKR being “canceled”. I’m talking about the women who wish to be as successful as JKR, who are now learning that “canceling” will happen to them if they attempt to speak like JKR has. Canceling doesn’t just silence the target. It also silences anyone who might be tempted to speak but isn’t endowed with supernatural courage. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4518 "2020-10-04T18:23:14Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I gave your last post a hard time and I’m sorry for that. I understand where you’re coming from. I do. And I’m sorry for coming into this thread to be exhausted at y’all. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4519 "2020-10-04T18:25:55Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Didn’t read part after where the quote was snipped? JKR said that if trams people were oppressed, she’d march. Since she’s not marching, I’m guessing that’s “downplaying trans oppression”.m I didn’t respond to it because I don’t recall that she’s said anything like this and I didn’t want to hound you more than necessary by asking you to cite it. But since you’ve opened this door: cite?? I just checked her essay and the closest thing I could find is this statement: > [If you could come inside my head and understand what I feel when I read about a trans woman dying at the hands of a violent man, you’d find solidarity and kinship. I have a visceral sense of the terror in which those trans women will have spent their last seconds on earth, because I too have known moments of blind fear when I realised that the only thing keeping me alive was the shaky self-restraint of my attacker.](https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/) No matter how hard I squint my eyes, I can’t find anything hateful or incendiary in this. It’s almost as if she’s saying she empathizes with trans women’s fears of predation. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4520 "2020-10-04T18:32:11Z")
> I despise trying to quote tweets. But the text says > I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so. Just one tiny word. IF you were discriminated against for being trans. It’s buried in a lot of stuff that makes a ton of sense. She respects trans people, her life has been shaped by being female, it’s not hateful to say that. Yup, I agree with that . She’s not marching against trans discrimination, but if it ever happens, she’ll be there! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4521 "2020-10-04T18:39:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you read for comprehension, you’d see that I’m not talking about JKR being “canceled”. I’m talking about the women who wish to be as successful as JKR, who are now learning that “canceling” will happen to them if they attempt to speak like JKR has. The claim was that men don’t get criticized as hard as women do when they express anti-trans bigotry, and the “evidence” in favor of this was a comparison between the most successful living author in the world, and a has-been whose last big role was a supporting character in _Shrek the Third_ This is not a useful or illuminating comparison. It most certainly doesn’t make any sort of case that women get more criticism than men in this area. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4522 "2020-10-04T18:39:35Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Just one tiny word. IF you were discriminated against for being trans. It’s buried in a lot of stuff that makes a ton of sense. She respects trans people, her life has been shaped by being female, it’s not hateful to say that. Yup, I agree with that . She’s not marching against trans discrimination, but if it ever happens, she’ll be there! Don’t you think it’s a wee uncharitable to interpret her statement as dismissing trans oppression? Her point is not that trans people aren’t discriminated against. Her point is that women should be able to speak about the relevance and importance of being biologically female without being condemned for it. Look at the paragraph I excerpted from her essay. I’ve never seen anything as empathetic or compassionate written by a TRA about female victims of misogyny. Never. And I’ve been a student of the gender discourse for over a year now. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4523 "2020-10-04T18:49:33Z")
Sorry to inject an extremely flawed analogy back into the discussion, but "if black people were discriminated against, I’d be out protesting. " BUT I’m going to stay home instead, drink a beer and bitch about whatever ox of mine that’s being gored. Does that sound like someone who recognizes black discrimination? She’s a professional writer. While tweets are much more off the cuff than insanely best selling novels, I don’t think it’s uncharitable to read the words she wrote as having meaning. She indicated that if something is happening, she’d be out there too. Since she’s not, does that mean it IS happening but she was lying? Or that she doesn’t think it happens? You mentioned something RE said about Caitlyn Jenner a few years ago, but what I’m referencing is one of the tweets that formed the center (or at least the beginning of…) The whole thread. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4524 "2020-10-04T18:58:34Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > "if black people were discriminated against, I’d be out protesting. " BUT I’m going to stay home instead, drink a beer and bitch about whatever ox of mine that’s being gored. Does that sound like someone who recognizes black discrimination? If you are going to set up this parallel, make it parallel, please. It should read: “I’d march with you if you’re discriminated on the basis of you being black”. So look, I’m a black person. And I totally would be okay with a white person saying they’d join my protest if I experienced racial discrimination. If some cops lock me up for being a sassy black bitch, I can expect this white person to join me and others in a Justice for YWTF march. It would be the height of stupidity for me to read this as a slight or dismissal against me and the discrimination I face as a black person. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4525 "2020-10-04T19:13:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > To have a parallel with what you’re talking about, we would need to be talking about ciswomen who are upset that other ciswomen are dating transwomen to the exclusion of ciswomen. I’m unaware that this is happening. Oh, it happens. There is a subset of lesbians who are adamant that you can’t sleep with a transwoman and still call yourself a lesbian. They show up at Pride parades carrying banners with transphobic terms on them, and shout slurs at trans people in attendance. When they get kicked out, they claim “lesbians have been banned at Pride,” because they’re the only “real” lesbians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=225) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=227)