# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 227
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4526 "2020-10-04T19:15:15Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > So look, I’m a black person. And I totally would be okay with a white person saying they’d join my protest if I experienced racial discrimination. If some cops lock me up for being a sassy black bitch, I can expect this white person to join me and others in a Justice for YWTF march. It would be the height of stupidity for me to read this as a slight or dismissal against me and the discrimination I face as a black person. Seriously. Would you feel the same if the offer to march with you only came after a lengthy lecture about how All Lives Matter, and if Black people really wanted to make things better for themselves, they’d do something about all the Black-on-Black street crime? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4527 "2020-10-04T19:19:02Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I’d march with you if you’re discriminated on the basis of you being black” Let’s make sure this is a collective “you” as it was a public statement addressing trans people, not a particular trans person. This wasn’t a DM to one transperson. ETA it wasn’t even @ one person, she was responding to herself on a chained tweet about the backlash. So “i’d march with you, if you (black people) were facing discrimination based on being black”- not if you, YWTF, were facing discrimination. You cannot interpret this as “if this one person personally faced discrimination, I’d grab my sign and hit the street”. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4528 "2020-10-04T19:38:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would you feel the same if the offer to march with you only came after a lengthy lecture about how All Lives Matter… The “anyone with a cervix” kick we’re currently death spiraling down is the _full embodiment_ of All Lives Matters, so I laugh. at. all. this. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4529 "2020-10-04T19:52:59Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Let’s make sure this is a collective “you” as it was a public statement addressing trans people, not a particular trans person. This wasn’t a DM to one transperson. ETA it wasn’t even @ one person, she was responding to herself on a chained tweet about the backlash. > > So “i’d march with you, if you (black people) were facing discrimination based on being black”- not if you, YWTF, were facing discrimination. You cannot interpret this as “if this one person personally faced discrimination, I’d grab my sign and hit the street”. I continue to be amazed at the lengths you’re taking to justify offense at what she wrote. Like so amazed my jaw is agape. “You” can be singular or plural. I read it as singular. Wanna know why? Because the sentences before and after it refer to singular people. Let’s play it back, okay? > I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so. First sentence refers to the rights of a singular _trans person_. Third sentence refers to JKR—once again a singular person. If your interpretation solely rests upon her using _you_ in the plural sense, then you are not justified in your interpretation. The context supports the singular meaning, and this is obvious to anyone who doesn’t have a pressing reason to hate her. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4530 "2020-10-04T19:54:15Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I’m tired of watching white people in this thread use racism as their go-to gotcha yas, when they aren’t on the business end of that particular gun. Sorry, I know I’ve used it as a comparison quite a bit too. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4531 "2020-10-04T20:01:53Z")
Wow, yeah, I too am amazed. Let’s try this Personal statement from raventhief to the world: I respect every black person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being black. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being white. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so. You seriously think that is solely addressed to YWTF, and not monstro, or anyone in this thread? Just you? ETA I don’t have a pressing reason to hate her. I’ve been trying to understand all sides, believe it or not, and I’m astounded that you think that the statement she made, to the world, in a public forum, was somehow only applicable to one given person, the singular “you.” Who was that one trans person she would march for, btw? ETAA: Ok, so say it is one singular you- if any of you trans people were facing discrimination for being trans, I would march. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4532 "2020-10-04T20:09:35Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > singular _trans person_ . Because I don’t want to keep editing… Not one trans person. EVERY trans person. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4533 "2020-10-04T20:12:28Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > You seriously think that is solely addressed to YWTF, and not monstro, or anyone in this thread? Just you? I don’t know why you think my answer would be different from the last blackified version you wrote. But yes, I would interpret her use of “you” as a statement about a hypothetical individual. I would NOT read her sentence as a denial that black people are discriminated against. But really, I wouldn’t even be focused on that part of her statement to begin with. Her point concerns the rights that she has to speak about her about lived experience. You may not have a pressing reason to hate JKR, but you are doing a good imitation of someone who does by parsing her tweet the way you have. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4534 "2020-10-04T20:14:43Z")
How many trans rights marches have been held in the UK in the last five-ten years? How many has JK Rowling attended? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4535 "2020-10-04T20:16:46Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > You may not have a pressing reason to hate JKR, but you are doing a good imitation of someone who does by parsing her tweet the way you have. I was thinking something along those lines, that you are making it clear that whatever she says cannot possibly be problematic ever at all, by parsing a tweet addressed to “every trans person” as being addressed to one singular hypothetical person. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4536 "2020-10-04T20:19:57Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Because I don’t want to keep editing… Not one trans person. EVERY trans person. Her grammar was still in the singular. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4537 "2020-10-04T20:23:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How many trans rights marches have been held in the UK in the last five-ten years? > > How many has JK Rowling attended? I never heard of any until this year. It’s not something that’s had much publicity until the government shelved plans for self-id. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4538 "2020-10-04T20:23:49Z")
I haven’t marched in any BLM protest rallies or marches. Does this mean I don’t really support black people? Is it possible that JKR would in fact protest on behalf of a trans rights, but does not want to do this while being associated with a slogan she doesn’t agree with? A slogan like “Transwomen are Women”? Because if that’s the case, JKR is like millions of people. Accepting of trans rights, but not accepting of gender ideology. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4539 "2020-10-04T20:26:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How many trans rights marches have been held in the UK in the last five-ten years? > > How many has JK Rowling attended? Probably about as many as the typical ally. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4540 "2020-10-04T20:29:28Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > How many trans rights marches have been held in the UK in the last five-ten years? > > > > > How many has JK Rowling attended? > > I never heard of any until this year. It’s not something that’s had much publicity until the government shelved plans for self-id. You have to remember that ‘gender reassignment’ is a protected characteristic in the equality act, so it’s already illegal to discriminate against someone for being trans. That doesn’t mean it never happens, obviously, but it does mean you can try and get a resolution in the courts rather than having to resort to protests. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4541 "2020-10-04T20:32:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > . > > When you’ve got people trying to cram their “girl dicks” down your throat. Wow. Just wow. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4542 "2020-10-04T20:35:26Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I posted a study a loooong time ago in this thread (feels like 100 years ago) that said female inmates are sexually assaulted in prison more than their male counterparts. That seems surprising, given that outside prison most sexual assaults are perpetrated my males. Or are assaults by guards included in that? Regardless, what makes you think Barbie would even have been in jail if she had been born a woman? Whatever factors cause men to commit more crimes - DNA, testosterone, upbringing, greater physical strength - also apply to her. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4543 "2020-10-04T20:38:34Z")
I have no idea about Barbie. But the pdf is linked here: The rate of [inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization](http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/pdca12.pdf) [PDF] is at least 3 times higher for females (13.7%) than males (4.2%). This has been attributed to the fact that a majority of prison officials do not view female-on-female sexual assault as “true rape,” making them less likely to reprimand inmates. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4544 "2020-10-04T20:42:18Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > That seems surprising, given that outside prison most sexual assaults are perpetrated my males. Or are assaults by guards included in that? Regardless, what makes you think Barbie would even have been in jail if she had been born a woman? Whatever factors cause men to commit more crimes - DNA, testosterone, upbringing, greater physical strength - also apply to her. That’s not even the relevant question to be asking in response to the claim that sexual assault happens more often in female prison! If what @raventheif is saying is true, then we’re putting transwomen in harms way by sending them to female prison. They are leaving one rapey place for an even more rapey place. Someone should call Gov Newsome and let him know he’s endangering transwomen by increasing their exposure to predatory females. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4545 "2020-10-04T20:50:18Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I haven’t marched in any BLM protest rallies or marches. > > Does this mean I don’t really support black people? No, of course not. But if someone accused you of racism, and you said, “I’m not racist! I’d totally march to protect Black rights,” I think it would be fair to ask, “Well, where the fuck have you been, then?” > [@](#): > > Is it possible that JKR would in fact protest on behalf of a trans rights, but does not want to do this while being associated with a slogan she doesn’t agree with? A slogan like “Transwomen are Women”? Because if that’s the case, JKR is like millions of people. Accepting of trans rights, but not accepting of gender ideology. Yeah, “I’d totally support queer rights, but I don’t like your phrasing!” is a pretty common refrain from straight people who don’t actually support queer rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=226) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=228)