# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 239
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4767 "2020-10-08T01:25:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Shouldn’t the bisexual women’s responses have been more in line with the lesbian women? Bi women are attracted to penises and vaginas. Totally predictable that they’d be more receptive to someone with a penis than a lesbian would. I’m really not trying to be snarky but I can’t understand what is so mystifying about any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4768 "2020-10-08T01:26:27Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Bi women are attracted to penises and vaginas. Totally predictable that they’d be more receptive to someone with a penis than a lesbian would. Again, “trans woman” and “Has a penis” are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4769 "2020-10-08T01:30:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Again, “trans woman” and “Has a penis” are not the same thing. Serano has a penis, no? And we’re talking about Serano’s claim of having more success with bi women than lesbians, right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4770 "2020-10-08T01:31:27Z")
She’s written about undergoing SRS. So, no. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4771 "2020-10-08T01:40:17Z")
No indication in that article she has SRS at the time she wrote all of that. But that’s irrelevant anyway. Bi women are naturally more receptive to sex with penises and the biological males attached to them. Again, not understanding what is so hard to understand about this. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4772 "2020-10-08T01:41:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I mean… that’s just how dating works, but sure, those could be concerns that would lead to rejection, without making the person necessarily transphobic. But why would lesbians, specifically, be so much more strongly affected by them than any other group Serano tried dating? I am not surprised at all that a genetically XX person would want to only have a relationship with another genetically XX person. Many of the transwomen examples here seem more typical of male behaviors than typical women behaviors. It’s totally reasonable that a genetically XX person is going to have some reasonable concerns about getting into a relationship with a genetically XY person regardless of how they identify. Even just on the sex issue, there is a huge difference in typical male and female sexual behaviors, desires, expected frequency, etc. If the genetically XX person has a typical genetically XX sex drive, she may want to be with someone else who also has a typical XX sex drive. She may be legitimately concerned that a genetically XY person is going to have a typical male sex drive, so she may just want to sidestep the whole issue. If these were the last two people on earth then maybe it would be worth disregarding those red flags, but there’s nothing wrong with cutting off a new relationship as soon as a major issue comes up. It could be the same thing for differences in religion, desired family size, economic backgrounds, etc. If someone knows that a certain issue tends to be the source of a lot of problems in a relationship, then ending the relationship may be the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4773 "2020-10-08T01:43:56Z")
It’s kind of amazing to me that YWTF is up in here explaining how and why lesbians (and bi women) are attracted to “fully functioning” vaginas, you know, the kind that is capable of giving birth, while freely admitting she has no idea what it’s like to actually be attracted to another woman. Do you think lesbian/bi women go "mmm yeah, bet she has a smooth birth canal? " Do you think you can define for women what’s sexy to us based on your experience as a veterinarian? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4774 "2020-10-08T02:06:12Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Do you think lesbian/bi women go "mmm yeah, bet she has a smooth birth canal? " Do you think you can define for women what’s sexy to us based on your experience as a veterinarian? What point are you trying to make? That there is no organic basis for sexually preferring a vagina over a vaginoplasty? Y’all have really lost the plot…I don’t know what else to say. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4775 "2020-10-08T02:10:28Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > That there is no organic basis for sexually preferring a vagina over a vaginoplasty? People can get aroused by looking at a _drawing_ of a vagina, so I’m going to need some more support for this “organic basis” than, “trust me, I’m a horse doctor.” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4776 "2020-10-08T02:20:29Z")
My point is that I’m really enjoying your straightsplaining how same sex attraction works. Do animals typically become sexually aroused after they’ve been neutered? It’s all biologically based. When a gay man is sexually aroused toward another man, what the biological reproductive basis for that? And if your point is that a lesbian will always instinctually just KNOW that a well done vaginaplasty or an infertile natural vagina isn’t the real thing because reproductive reasons, then I don’t know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4777 "2020-10-08T02:29:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > People can get aroused by looking at a _drawing_ of a vagina, so I’m going to need some more support for this “organic basis” than, “trust me, I’m a horse doctor.” Like I said, y’all have totally lost it. You are undermining everything the lesbian and gay community fought to make society understand, and it is dismaying to watch. Sexual orientation is immutable. Its instinctual. It’s innate. It’s _organic_. If liking vagina could be “unlearned”, generations of lesbians—scorned by their families, attacked by their communities—would have signed up for all the courses. But conversion.therapy.doesnt.work. What you’re saying looks just like 1980’s style homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4778 "2020-10-08T02:32:25Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Do animals typically become sexually aroused after they’ve been neutered? It’s all biologically based. When a gay man is sexually aroused toward another man, what the biological reproductive basis for that? None of these questions logically follow from anything I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4779 "2020-10-08T02:32:44Z")
I’m a trained biologist with a Ph.D and I concur with the “horse doctor” (I’m tempted to say I’d rather be a horse doctor than a jackass nobody, but that wouldn’t be ladylike). > **[Pheromones and their effect on women’s mood and sexuality](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987372/)** > > Pheromones are substances which are secreted to the outside by an individual and received by a second individual of the same species. Many examples exist in animals but their role in humans remains uncertain since adults have no functioning... This one is pretty cool: > **[Brain response to putative pheromones in lesbian women](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570103/)** > > The progesterone derivative 4,16-androstadien-3-one (AND) and the estrogen-like steroid estra-1,3,5(),16-tetraen-3-ol (EST) are candidate compounds for human pheromones. In previous positron emission tomography studies, we found that smelling AND and... > In contrast to heterosexual women, lesbian women processed AND stimuli by the olfactory networks and not the anterior hypothalamus. Furthermore, when smelling EST, they partly shared activation of the anterior hypothalamus with heterosexual men. Another really cool one: > **[Sex Smells: Study Finds Sexual Orientation Impacts Reactions To Pheromones](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/sex-smells-study-finds-sexual-orientation-impacts-reactions-to-pheromones-cc0647f85301/)** > A [new study](http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2814%2900327-3) published this month by Wen Zhou of the Chinese Academy of Sciences found a connection between a person’s self-identified sexual orientation and their ability [to react to different pheromones](http://motherboard.vice.com/read/more-evidence-sexuality-is-innate-gay-men-respond-to-male-sex-pheromones). Specifically, participants with an orientation to men (straight women and gay men) responded to male pheromones but not female pheromones. > > The experiment exposed participants to either androstadienone (found in male semen and sweat) or estratetraenol (present in female urine) and tested to see how it impacted their gender presentations of a [simulated person walking toward them](http://www.biomotionlab.ca/Demos/BMLwalker.html). In all cases, the pheromones were disguised by cloves, so participants were unaware of which pheromone (if any) they were smelling. Self-identified gay men and straight women were more likely to perceive masculinity when exposed to the male pheromone, but had no reaction to the female pheromone. Conversely, straight men were more likely to perceive femininity when exposed to estratetraenol, while lesbian and bisexual women had a more mixed reaction. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4780 "2020-10-08T02:42:15Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Like I said, y’all have totally lost it. You are undermining everything the lesbian and gay community fought to make society understand, and it is dismaying to watch. Thank you again for straightsplaining how same sex attraction works. You’re right, it is all about reproductive purposes and nothing to do with innate sexual attraction that can sometimes transcend actual reproduction ability. Lesbians, bi men and women, and gay men all thank you for setting us “straight” on how our own orientation works. Look, the point isn’t that there isn’t a biological component. There is, and that’s indisputable. If sexual arousal were only pheromone and based on reproductive fitness, we wouldn’t have nearly as much fun as we do. And pickup artists who slather themselves in chemical cocktails score.every.simgle.time. If I’m attracted to someone, I am NOT thinking"dickdickdick". OR “pussypussypussy.” I’m not thinking “I must breed now”. Reproductive fitness can be removed from the equation entirely and still leave sexual arousal. clearly biology and veterinary medicine have decided I’m wrong. Sorry to be bi wrong per you and monstro. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4781 "2020-10-08T02:44:20Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > When a gay man is sexually aroused toward another man, what the biological reproductive basis for that? [https://www.pnas.org/content/102/20/7356](https://www.pnas.org/content/102/20/7356) > The testosterone derivative 4,16-androstadien-3-one (AND) and the estrogen-like steroid estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3-ol (EST) are candidate compounds for human pheromones. AND is detected primarily in male sweat, whereas EST has been found in female urine. In a previous positron emission tomography study, we found that smelling AND and EST activated regions covering sexually dimorphic nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus, and that this activation was differentiated with respect to sex and compound. In the present study, the pattern of activation induced by AND and EST was compared among homosexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women. In contrast to heterosexual men, and in congruence with heterosexual women, homosexual men displayed hypothalamic activation in response to AND. Maximal activation was observed in the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus, which, according to animal studies, is highly involved in sexual behavior. As opposed to putative pheromones, common odors were processed similarly in all three groups of subjects and engaged only the olfactory brain (amygdala, piriform, orbitofrontal, and insular cortex). These findings show that our brain reacts differently to the two putative pheromones compared with common odors, and suggest a link between sexual orientation and hypothalamic neuronal processes. @YWTF wasn’t “straightsplaining” anything, by the way. She is speaking as one of the highest ranking veterinarians in this country. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4782 "2020-10-08T02:45:40Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > @YWTF wasn’t “straightsplaining” anything, by the way. She is speaking as one of the highest ranking veterinarians in this country She is literally explaining how same sex attraction works. Without any personal experience at all. To people who have. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4783 "2020-10-08T02:52:51Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > She is literally explaining how same sex attraction works. Without any personal experience at all. To people who have. No I didn’t. I answered @Miller’s question about what a fully functional vagina is and how it differs from a penis surgically altered to look like one. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4784 "2020-10-08T02:54:00Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > A vagina isn’t just a receptacle for sex play. Like any other non-vestigial body part, it performs a function. In females, a vagina is a self-cleaning, self-lubricating structure with its own microflora and ph balance; these things help ensure sexual and _reproductive_ health. > > The vagina is also called the birth canal. Conveying uterine contents to the outside of the body is actually the most important function of vaginas. When this function is impaired, women can get sick and even die (see female genital mutilation). > > Some members of our species have an innate attraction to this body part. Since I am not one of them, I can’t relate to this attraction at all. But as a sexually active vagina-haver and a veterinarian This is why no lesbian can attracted to a non functional vagina. Because lesbians want birth canals. By all means, any lesbian, bi or heterosexual person is welcome to not want a trans person I’ve never argued that they don’t. To say that it’s due to a fully functional birth canal is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4785 "2020-10-08T02:56:58Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > [Lesbians] want fully functional vaginas. That’s what he responded to. And you called it a derpy question and clarified what the fully functional vaginas they want actually are. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/4786 "2020-10-08T02:57:12Z")
Lol. I didn’t say what you’re saying I did. Just stop the madness already. The pure derpiness of it all is inducing 2nd hand embarrassment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=238) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=240)