# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 264
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5267 "2020-10-14T21:00:02Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > First, there is a doth protest too much quality to your post. Not a good look. > > Second, why are you speaking in absolutes about what incel would and wouldn’t believe? Google “transmaxxing”. Do some reading. Understand your assumptions may be based on ignorance. 🙄 I’m basing my thoughts on what I’ve seen from incels on the web. And yeah, “transmaxxing”, which you seem to think is a trend that’s sweeping the nation but in actuality is the name of a tiny incel subreddit for trolls making up BS stories like the one DemonTree linked, is something I’ve never heard of until you mentioned it, but which makes perfect sense. It shows you that Incels have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to trans people or women, which is to be expected. In fact, these stories they troll each other with about becoming trans to win female status get posted precisely because, to the majority of incels, its a controversial idea – read the comments in the reddit thread DemonTree linked for some examples of the insults tossed towards “trannies” like the OP. Eta: not that the OP of that thread is actually trans – give me a fucking break! ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5268 "2020-10-14T21:01:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So no concern about the disparity of physical strength, endurance and likely weight between transwomen and women in such an obviously physical sport? Like I said, no one can convince me the movement behind this cares at all about women. Broken backs. Concussions. Death. There are no costs too high for them as long as all the costs are carried by females and none by males. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5269 "2020-10-14T21:02:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So no concern about the disparity of physical strength, endurance and likely weight between transwomen and women in such an obviously physical sport? …transwomen have been playing rugby for years. If the alleged disparity of physical strength, endurance and likely weight between transwomen and women was a problem then we would be seeing the results on the field and women who actually played rugby would be unanimous in wanting transgender women not to play. No concern from you about wanting to exclude transwomen from participating in a sport that many other women (that play that sport) want them to participate in? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5270 "2020-10-14T21:04:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It shows you that Incels have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to trans people or women, which is to be expected. And yet you still haven’t addressed the main point. There is nothing at all that would prevent a boy from falsely identifying as trans. Incel or not, this is the fundamental problem with TWAW. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5271 "2020-10-14T21:05:00Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > There is nothing at all Other than centuries of intense social pressure > [@](#): > > that would prevent a boy from falsely identifying as trans. Incel or not, this is the fundamental problem with TWAW. Fixed that for you. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5272 "2020-10-14T21:09:44Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …transwomen have been playing rugby for years. If the alleged disparity of physical strength, endurance and likely weight between transwomen and women was a problem then we would be seeing the results on the field and women who actually played rugby would be unanimous in wanting transgender women not to play. Considering the ramping up of transgender identification in the past decade we can presume a greater number will be coming into the full-contact sport. Would evidence of greater injury risk in the coming years convince you that it might be a bad idea? Or are you ideologically bound to your position come what may? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5273 "2020-10-14T21:10:47Z")
If I really wanted to play a sport that I loved, I might consider the additional risk worthwhile. The article cites a former competitive swimmer whose 11 year old daughter was told she can’t play sports with boys because it’s dangerous. That seems a fairly common rule in children’s sports, like soccer for example. Do you think this looks like an even playing field: [https://metrovoicenews.com/broken-bones-uk-rugby-referees-quitting-after-bearded-transgender-players-injure-women/](https://metrovoicenews.com/broken-bones-uk-rugby-referees-quitting-after-bearded-transgender-players-injure-women/) Have you played sports competitively? If so, which one(s)? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5274 "2020-10-14T21:11:41Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Broken backs. Concussions. Death. There are no costs too high for them as long as all the costs are carried by females and none by males. …all you’ve got is fear. Look at the words that you use. Broken backs. Concussions. Death. Broken backs is a thing that happen to rugby players. > **[Broken back could rule Brimson out for half a season](https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/05/08/brimson-out-indefinitely-with-back-fracture/)** > > Gold Coast have been dealt a massive blow with star fullback AJ Brimson ruled out potentially until August after his back injury was worse than first feared. Not a transgender person in sight. Concussion is a thing that happens to rugby players. > **[Concussions in rugby union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union)** > > Concussions in professional rugby union are the most common injury received. Concussion can occur where an individual experiences an impact to the head, and are also notable in high-contact sports, including American football, boxing, MMA and Hockey. Concussions can occur in recreational activities like horse riding, jumping, cycling, and skiing as a result of forceful rotational moment, resulting in injuries to the brain due to the contact with the skull, giving the skull not enough time to m... Its the most common injury. Death is a thing that happens on the rugby field. > **[Rugby Deaths Cloud the Sport](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/116610-rugby-one-of-the-most-dangerous-and-traumatic-sport)** > > Rugby is one of the greatest sports ever, but it is full of injuries that can end one’s career or even their life.Injuries range from the neck to the shoulder, the arm to the elbow... Not a transgender person in sight. All you have is fear. Rugby is our national sport. Its runs in our veins. We know the game. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5275 "2020-10-14T21:13:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Broken backs is a thing that happen to rugby players. Broken nose is a thing in rugby too. As it happens it’s a thing in boxing and martial arts. You cool with transwomen stepping into a boxing ring with women? Or is that different? If so why? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5276 "2020-10-14T21:17:50Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > All you have is fear. Rugby is our national sport. Its runs in our veins. We know the game. What does this even mean? My son played rugby. It’s not our national sport but it’s a hell of a game. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5277 "2020-10-14T21:20:00Z")
It is very possible they are telling the truth about their experiences but interpreting those experiences misogynistically. Hormonal fluctuations are notorious for causing brain fog, memory problems, fatigue, anxiety, and mood swings. This person may truly be stupid and dumb after they get their injections. They are just stupidly blaming the estrogen rather than the fact they are getting injections of estrogen. Additionally, being an idiot, they may be interpreting “not being an arrogant know-it-all” with “being dumb”. I can totally believe that testosterone makes it easier for an person to be an arrogant know-it-all because testosterone is associated with aggressiveness and competitiveness. Take testosterone away and a person will likely be more sensitive to feelings of self-doubt and self-consciousness. The euphoria they describe doesn’t sound crazy at all, actually. During the ovulation phase of my menstrual cycle, I feel like I can do all things. My creativity, energy, and optimism are at their peak at this time. They are at their lowest when my estrogen levels are low. I’m just a couple of days away from starting my estrogen blockers. I’m so not looking forward to what’s to come. It took me took 15 years of me being under the influence of estrogen for me to understand how it makes me feel. So I can hardly blame an idiot who has been on estrogen for six months for not describing their experience in the most accurate way. I don’t think this person is a woman, but I do believe they are a transwoman. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5278 "2020-10-14T21:21:04Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The article cites a former competitive swimmer whose 11 year old daughter was told she can’t play sports with boys because it’s dangerous. That seems a fairly common rule in children’s sports, like soccer for example. …there was a nationwide outcry here when an 11 year old girl was told she couldn’t play for the boys rugby team in a tournament. The team decided to play with her in the team regardless and forfeited their points. [https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/113634975/briar-hales-will-play-for-first-xv-after-team-agrees-to-forfeit-any-points-it-gets-for-wins](https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/113634975/briar-hales-will-play-for-first-xv-after-team-agrees-to-forfeit-any-points-it-gets-for-wins) So your anecdote really counts for nothing. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do you think this looks like an even playing field: Have you ever wondered why the same article gets cited (even multiple times in this thread) over and over again? Who were these referees? How many were there? What were their names? Why are these article posted over and over again with so little skepticism? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Have you played sports competitively? If so, which one(s)? Is this a thing with you? You already drove iiiandyii away from the thread because he was too “cis male” to participate. Do we now have to have played sports competitively in order to discuss competitive sports? Are you the gatekeeper of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5279 "2020-10-14T21:22:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …all you’ve got is fear. Look at the words that you use. Broken backs. Concussions. Death. So you go on to list the immense damage that can happen due to the high-energy impacts of biological male on biological male. Can you not then go a little further and imagine what might be the consequence of allowing such high-energy impacts on a group of people far less able to withstand them? Do you think it will increase the risk of injuries? decrease them? or remain the same? I’m interested in your reasoning here. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5280 "2020-10-14T21:24:58Z")
Yeah, you’re probably right. I hope you’re right. Either way, some people are really really weird. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5281 "2020-10-14T21:29:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Other than centuries of intense social pressure There are intense social pressures against doing a lot of things. Rape, murder, assault, theft, forgery, and fraud. And despite this pressure, people still manage to do these things _all the time_. So we put safeguards in place to mitigate the harm that these people do. We don’t allow people to “honor system” their way into stuff because we know people in general don’t have honor. People are only thinking about themselves. We come up with rules and conditions that people must follow before they can be given certain privileges. Hundreds of thousands of years worth of trial and error has taught us that we invite harm when we fail to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5282 "2020-10-14T21:29:22Z")
You got a convenient explanation for how the estrogen suddenly made him go from being a straight male to craving dicks? Or how it let him have ‘endless female orgasms’ even though he still had a penis and not a clitoris? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5283 "2020-10-14T21:30:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Have you ever wondered why the same article gets cited (even multiple times in this thread) over and over again? Who were these referees? How many were there? What were their names? Why are these article posted over and over again with so little skepticism? I’m not talking about the refs quitting. Hang the refs. I’m just wondering if the disparity in the image makes sense to you from a level playing field perspective. Just gut feel. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Is this a thing with you? You already drove iiiandyii away from the thread because he was too “cis male” to participate. Do we now have to have played sports competitively in order to discuss competitive sports? Are you the gatekeeper of this thread? Is what a thing for me? I’m just as “cis male” as iiandyiiii. I still have misgivings about having a strong opinion with respect to transwomen in spaces that are traditionally strictly women’s, like locker rooms, not so much bathrooms. I prefer that decision be made by women and transwomen. I’m a little more comfortable with taking a position on sports. Is that a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5284 "2020-10-14T21:32:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Broken nose is a thing in rugby too. As it happens it’s a thing in boxing and martial arts. You cool with transwomen stepping into a boxing ring with women? …here are the Association of Boxing rules on transgender boxers. > **[2bc3fc\_a78ffb4eca2e4f07a122c990005f77dd.pdf](https://13248aea-16f8-fc0a-cf26-a9339dd2a3f0.filesusr.com/ugd/2bc3fc_a78ffb4eca2e4f07a122c990005f77dd.pdf)** > > 1851.05 KB I don’t think they are unreasonable. Do you? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > What does this even mean? It means we live and breath rugby here. Its more than a sport. Its a religion. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5285 "2020-10-14T21:33:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Broken nose is a thing in rugby too. As it happens it’s a thing in boxing and martial arts. You cool with transwomen stepping into a boxing ring with women? Or is that different? If so why? Of course he’s cool with that too. Not making transwomen feel bad is the only thing that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/5286 "2020-10-14T21:37:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Other than centuries of intense social pressure > > There are intense social pressures against doing a lot of things. Rape, murder, assault, theft, forgery, and fraud. And despite this pressure, people still manage to do these things _all the time_ . So we put safeguards in place to mitigate the harm that these people do. We don’t allow people to “honor system” their way into stuff because we know people in general don’t have honor. People are only thinking about themselves. We come up with rules and conditions that people must follow before they can be given certain privileges. Hundreds of thousands of years worth of trial and error has taught us that we invite harm when we fail to do this. Thats true, sometimes people will steal or kill or rape despite the risk to their social status. Do you have any examples of people doing something that is socially stigmatized (like becoming trans) specifically in order to gain social status within the very society which frowns upon that act? Because if not, we are kinda comparing apples and oranges. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=263) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=265)