# Jack = John = Jack? Huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682 "2005-04-22T23:03:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/1 "2005-04-22T23:03:40Z")
So… Jack is a nickname for John. As in Jack Kennedy. But people are named Jack at birth. And most nicknames are diminutives (not all, of course). So, how come a person baptized John (Kennedy) is refered to as Jack? And related - Why are the Kennedy’s refered to as Camelot? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/2 "2005-04-23T00:27:15Z")
[Behind The Name](http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=jack) says that Jack is from Jackin, which is a medieval pet form of John. Now, what’s a “pet form”? Basis or no, it just doesn’t seem right. - Patty (just call me Paul) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/3 "2005-04-23T00:46:31Z")
I’m going to go with a French influence here… ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/4 "2005-04-23T00:58:04Z")
Frère Jacques, Frère Jacques Dormez vous? Dormez vous? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/5 "2005-04-23T01:07:40Z")
“Jacque,” like “John,” (or “Johann,” etc,) is a transliteration of the Hebrew [Yochanan](http://www.ebible.org/bible/hnv/John.htm) – the emphasis is just on different phonemes. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/6 "2005-04-23T01:09:03Z")
_Jacques_, dammit. I always do that. Bad Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/7 "2005-04-23T01:16:52Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > And related - Why are the Kennedy’s refered to as Camelot? Jack supposedly liked the musical, and Jackie made sure Theodore H. White used a quote from it in a Life magazine article memorializing him. “Don’t let it be forgot, that once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment that was known as Camelot.” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/8 "2005-04-23T01:30:10Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > “Jacque,” like “John,” (or “Johann,” etc,) is a transliteration of the Hebrew [Yochanan](http://www.ebible.org/bible/hnv/John.htm) No, it isn’t. John comes from Ioannes - ultimately from Yochanan. Jaques comes from Iacobus - from Ya’aqov. Other names from the root are Jacob and James. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/9 "2005-04-23T01:31:31Z")
Ioannes and Iacobus as the latin versions, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/10 "2005-04-23T01:33:28Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > “Jacque,” like “John,” (or “Johann,” etc,) is a transliteration of the Hebrew [Yochanan](http://www.ebible.org/bible/hnv/John.htm) – the emphasis is just on different phonemes. No. Jacques is from Latin Jacobus, from Greek Iakobos, from Hebrew Ya‘qob. The English form of Jacobus is James. I see how Jack could have been derived from Jankin, a Middle English diminutive of John, with the Low German diminutive suffix -_kin_. In the Wife of Bath’s Tale, one of her ex-husbands was named Jankin. The guy whose favorite book was that fictional misogynist classic _The Boke of Wikked Wyves_ — fit only for the fireplace. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/11 "2005-04-23T01:40:04Z")
Whoopsie. Thank you, **Johanna**. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/12 "2005-04-23T02:46:23Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > So… Jack is a nickname for John. As in Jack Kennedy. > But people are named Jack at birth. And most nicknames are diminutives (not all, of course). > So, how come a person baptized John (Kennedy) is refered to as Jack? People are named “Jon” at birth as well. Plenty of given names nowadays started out as nicknames. On a side note: sometimes given names are given with the hope that a standard nickname will catch on. My standard nickname never stuck, and coincidentally I never became much of an “all-American boy” either. ---
**Author:** ![Cheez\_Whia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cheez\_Whia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheez_Whia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/13 "2005-04-23T04:29:11Z")
My dad has been called Jack all his life. But his given name is Henry. My grandpa must have had some sense of humor, as the nickname was always attributed to him. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/14 "2005-04-23T05:45:50Z")
I always thought that Jack, and John, both basically just referred to a Man. The link is simply they’re two names that mean the same thing. Perhaps that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/15 "2005-04-23T07:12:36Z")
But, but… Seeing that Jack and John have different roots, what’s the reasoning behind calling John “Jack” ( is it ever the other way around?)? This isn’t just some quirk from a parent with a sense of humor. Thanks for the Camelot answer. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/16 "2005-04-23T15:14:08Z")
**Patty O’Furniture** has already answered the question of how John can become Jack. It’s from the Middle English diminutive form Jankin. Originally Jan (a form of John, as in Dutch) + -kin (a Low German diminutive, also seen in Dutch words like manikin). Jankin was Middle English for Johnny. The only thing that still needs explaining is how the -n- in the middle dropped out. This might possibly be explained by the tendency in some languages, in some situations, to lose n before a consonant. In Hebrew this is a regular pattern. In Hebrew, the loss of -n- resulted in a compensatory lengthening of the consonant after it. Compare: Arabic _anta_, Hebrew _attah_ ‘thou’. Arabic _sunbulah_, Hebrew _shibboleth_ ‘ear of grain’. Jack has, understandably, become confused with the French name Jacques, which is really Jacob or James. My grandfather immigrated from Sicily in 1920, and although his original name was Vincenzo, for some reason he changed it to James upon becoming an American citizen. It was explained to me when I was a child that James was the English translation of Vincenzo. Anyone could see that it is no such thing! It’s a totally different name. I remained puzzled even after I met another woman whose Sicilian immigrant grandfather had changed his name from Vincenzo to James, and given the same explanation. WTF? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/17 "2005-04-23T15:30:15Z")
A guy at our school was christened “Jack,” his nickname was “John.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/18 "2005-04-23T19:37:24Z")
My father’s name was Jack; it was Jack on his birth certificate; he was never know by anything other than Jack. But whenever someone wanted to sound “formal,” e.g. addressing an invitation, the name “John” reared its ugly head. It always bugged the hell out of my father. When he died, the paper changed the name in his obituary to John; they had to reprint it. ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/19 "2005-04-23T19:43:28Z")
“For one bright shining moment, we all came…a lot!” ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-john-jack-huh/300682/20 "2005-04-23T19:53:55Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > My father’s name was Jack; it was Jack on his birth certificate; he was never know by anything other than Jack. > > But whenever someone wanted to sound “formal,” e.g. addressing an invitation, the name “John” reared its ugly head. It always bugged the hell out of my father. > > When he died, the paper changed the name in his obituary to John; they had to reprint it. Same thing here. Quite a few people assume that my name is “Jon” short for “Jonathan”, when it’s actually “John”. Caused me no end of disciplinary writeups in school when I insistently corrected my teachers and got angry when they refused to call me by my name.