# Jack Ryan Jr.? That is SO not a good idea... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400 "2003-07-18T14:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/1 "2003-07-18T14:59:38Z")
Apparently Mr. Tom Clancy has realized what a hole he wrote himself into by having his major franchise character become the President. His first attempt at solving the problem was in **Red Rabbit** , which he set entirely in the past. This worked (I suppose, since I haven’t read it yet), but is kind of limiting, since who cares about the Cold War anymore? Plus it’s really hard to fit extra stories into the existing multi-thousand page history. Continuity is hard. So what’s his new solution, used in **The Teeth of the Tiger**? > [@](#): > > Jack was raised on intrigue. As his father moved through the ranks of the CIA and then into the White House, Jack received a life course in the world and the way it operates from agents, statesmen, analysts, Secret Service men, and black ops specialists such as John Clark and Ding Chavez. Yes, Jack Ryan, Jr. is the new focus of the books. Uggh. This kid has had about ten pages of characterization total, in all the books. I vaguely remember him being in **Patriot Games** as a baby. He’s barely even a character. Plus he’s supposed to be an action hero and **he’s the President’s son**! Paging the Secret Service… Mr. Clancy, you’re really testing me here. Why can’t you write a new story with all new characters? You did it with **Red Storm Rising** way back when, and that was a good book. You have the popularity to sell anything with your name on it. Why so stuck in the rut? OTOH, the book is short, only 460 pages. Maybe he got an editor. ---
**Author:** ![Umbriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de053/32.png) [@Umbriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Umbriel)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/2 "2003-07-18T19:30:36Z")
A bigger problem I would think is the extent to which the Jack Ryan timeline has diverged from our own. _Sum of All Fears_ and _Executive Orders_ left the Middle East pretty much stabilized and peaceful. The China and India of the “Ryanverse” are rather more hostile to the U.S. than they are in our world, while his Russia is more friendly. I suppose there’s still North Korea to draw on as a recognizable troublespot, but the series is really roaming into the “Alternative History Sci-Fi” rather than “Contemporary Techno-Thriller” genre. I think that alone, aside from Ryan having professionally plateaued, is enough reason to “reboot” with a fresh world and set of characters. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/3 "2003-07-19T00:24:17Z")
Is this just another loophole to weasel around his divorce settlement? IIRC, he didn’t use the name “Jack Ryan” at all in _Rainbow Six_ because his wife gets a cut from the Jack Ryan books. Oh yeah, and he supposedly changed the setting of _SOAF_ from Denver to Baltimore because his wife lives there now. OTOH, maybe he’s doing this because Clancy fans called “shenanigans” on the new young Ryan at the movies. Maybe he figures this will be his next movie franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/4 "2003-07-19T00:28:12Z")
Jack… Ryan… _Junior?_ Ooookay. Somehow, I get this weird feeling that this will be remembered as the point where ole Clancy done went and jumped the shark… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/5 "2003-07-19T00:40:58Z")
Actually, I think Clancy jumped the shark when Jack Ryan entered the Oval Office. Red Rabbit was bad; real bad. It’s the first Clancy book I have no desire to read again. One theory I’ve heard was that Clancy was obliged to write it to satisfy a contract and bascially knocked it out as quickly as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/6 "2003-07-19T01:14:44Z")
**ElwoodCuse** has it right. Clancy doesn’t want to have to give any of his money to his wife, and the creation of Jack Ryan Jr. is a good (in his mind) way to get away from Jack Ryan Sr. (BTW, doesn’t the former Mrs. Clancy collect 50% of all profits from the Jack Ryan books?) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/7 "2003-07-19T12:17:01Z")
He needs to go with Mister Clark as a main character. One of the most memorable in modern literature. Where was John during the Iran-Contra thing? During Iran-Iraq or either Gulf War? I know some spy guys. Very unassuming fellows. I have always imagined JC as a younger Dick VanPatten. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/8 "2003-08-20T21:30:57Z")
I’ve just finished the new book. It’s not as bad as I’d feared, but it lacks a bit in the old plausibility department… ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/9 "2003-08-20T21:33:47Z")
Actually, the best thing about it is its length…about that of _Red October_. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/10 "2003-08-20T22:19:06Z")
The main problem I have had with Clancy’s books after SOAF is that he has so fallen in love with his main characters that you never get the sense that there is any possibility they might fail, much less get killed. Takes away any suspense. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/11 "2003-08-20T23:36:00Z")
Haven’t read any of Clancy’s Jack Ryan novels, myself, but what do y’all think of his **Net Force** spin-off series? ---
**Author:** ![Curate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Curate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curate)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/12 "2003-08-21T04:36:55Z")
The problem with Junior, as I see it, is that he seems a clone of the Jack Ryan from the Red October era. Independently wealthy, similar job, similar gifts for analysis, same wary admiration of his superiors. I don’t see his career being particularly different from his dad’s. I’d also like to know more about Mr. Clark. The brothers don’t really seem in his league. I can’t imagine Mr. C needing any special poisoning equipment. Just give the guy a paperclip and a shoelace. ---
**Author:** ![CharlesW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@CharlesW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CharlesW)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/13 "2003-08-21T06:27:50Z")
I hated the new book. Had it read 3 days after it came out. Will not read it again. Several problems with it [spoiler] 1. When reading Jack and having to remember it is Jr. not the original. Couldn’t he have used one of Zimmerman’s kids, and not have him named Jack? 2. Can someone explain how the two brothers are related to ‘Uncle Jack’? Are they sons of Robby or ?. 3. Secret private corporation to kill people? That uses insider information to make cash on the stock market? Has moles inside the CIA/NSA and nobody knows? Come on! 4. The ‘get out of jail free cards’ that had blank date / crime fill in the blank. Wouldn’t it be invalid if the date on the pardon was after he left office? 5. How dare he kill off Robby, and then just barley mention it in passing. Come on he was a big piece of the books he deserves more. At least write a book where Jack stepped down, and Robby took over then got killed.[/spoiler] I agree I want more Clark books. My all time favorite scene in his books is when Clark meets with Oreza again years after Clark’s ‘death’. In Rainbow Six he mentions that Clark and Stanley have worked together before. Write a book about that. What did they do together? **rjung** which NetForce are you talking about? The ‘adult’ version or the ‘kids’ version? Neither are bad, but never really got into them. The ‘kids’ version has some technology that is just out there. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/14 "2003-08-21T17:49:40Z")
I was thinking of the adult version. I read the first novel in the series and thought it was okay, even though the tech was a bit wobbly IMO. No idea how it stacks up to Clancy’s other stuff, though. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jack-ryan-jr-that-is-so-not-a-good-idea/189400/15 "2003-08-21T18:18:38Z")
Clancy lost it once he got rich enough that tthe books were more about his personal political fantasies and petty gripes then about the world of Jack Ryan CIA guy. By **Sum** he has pretty much lost it. This Jack Ryan, Jr. stuff seems to be more fantasy self-insertion fan-fiction for Clancy. Shame, he was good once. To compare **Red Storm Rising** to any of his last 5 or so books- hardly even the same author. ☹