# Jackals of the Dope, I pit you! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708 "2007-04-11T22:11:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/221 "2007-04-12T22:04:40Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Are there any lines that you can’t cross even in the Pit, other than trolling, death threats, and hate speech? [/QUOTE] I hope not. I’m totally jonesin’ to call someone a platypus-rimmer now. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/222 "2007-04-12T22:20:39Z")
This post is just about answering this one post. To those of you arguing about Pit rules, please pass right on by. [QUOTE=Velma] I have avoided this whole mess and I shouldn’t even be posting this now, but I for one am tired of people using the story of Jesus and the Pharisees to imply that people cannot ever make judgements about other people’s behavior. Jesus taught that before condemning we have to look at that same behavior in our own lives and try to fix ourselves before we start getting on other people to fix them. “Look at yourself before you look at others”, that is not the same as “tell everyone whatever they are doing is ok”. It does not mean that if I ever did anything wrong in my life, then I cannot ever make value judgements about other people or tell people what they are doing is wrong. If I am in the midst of an affair then I shouldn’t tell someone else to stop, not that if I ever had an affair in the past and gotten through it then I can’t tell someone they shouldn’t smoke crack. If you are going to use a Biblical analogy please use it correctly. [/QUOTE] I’m not a Christian, so if you are, I think I’m reading a Christian pastor author that I interpret to be disagreeing with you here. His name is John Ortberg and his book is “Everybody’s Normal Till You Get to Know Them” and the chapter is called “Put Down Your Stones.” It is about John Eight. It is about a woman that was caught with a man, not her husband, and dragged out to be stoned. As she was about to be stoned, Jesus wrote some things in the sand and people put down the stones and walked away. Ortberg notes that scholars speculate that what Jesus may have been writing was the sins of the people picking up stones. You seem to be saying that one can judge someone else as long as their sin is different than yours. I don’t think that’s what this Christian pastor is saying. > [@](#): > > Historically, Christian thinkers have divided sin into two categories: “sins of the flesh” and “sins of the spirit.” Sins of the flesh generally involve appetites that get out of control: lust, greed, gluttonny, drunkenness, laziness. Our flesh is fallen enough that given enough time, we can turn almost anything into the idol of our lives: Playboy magazines, Krispy Kreme donuts, BMW automobiles, even the television remote control. As was the case with the woman in this story, these idols will inevitably lead to other sins as well: deceit, betrayal, despair. > > The second category is called “sins of the spirit.” These have less to do with our biology than with our souls. They have names like pride, arrogance, self-righteousness, and judgmentalism. They are generally not as colorful as sins of the flesh. They don’t provoke nearly as much gossip–perhaps because gossip is itself a sin of the spirit. Rarely does a church exercise discipline over one of these sins. If you hear a pastor having to leave a church for “moral reasons,” you can be pretty sure it’s not pride. Churches in our day are not usually scandalized by sins like arrogance or self-righteousness. > > But Jesus was. The New Testament tells a striking number of stories that involve the triad of a “sinner of the flesh,” a “sinner of the spirit,” and Jesus.. . . > > In all of these stories, the people guilty of the “sins of the flesh” knew they were in big trouble. They also saw Jesus as a person they could run to. They finally came home. > > In all these stories the people guilty of pride and arrogance were also blind. They thought it was possible to love God and despise people. They actually thought they were paragons of spiritual maturity because they avoided sins of the flesh. They had no idea that their sin crippled their ability to love–which makes sins of the spirit the most dangerous and destructive sins of all. > > \*We \*are most scandalized by sins of the flesh. _Jesus_ was most scandalized by sins of the spirit. And this quote probably doesn’t have to do with the argument here, but it’s my favorite quote so I’m placing it here anyway. From the same Ortberg book: > [@](#): > > C.S. Lewis wrote, > > The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual: the pleasure of putting other people in the wrong, of bossing and patronizing;. . . the pleasures of power, of hatred. For there are two things inside me, competing with the human self which I must try to become. They are the Animal self, and the Diabolical self. The Diabolical self is the worse of the two. That is why a cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. That last line is always an interesting thought for me. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/223 "2007-04-12T23:13:42Z")
_Be_ the Pit _you_ wish to see. ~acient **faithfool** proverb ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/224 "2007-04-12T23:19:53Z")
**MizGrand** if it makes you feel any better there are now more threads about Imus than you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/225 "2007-04-13T00:08:42Z")
Hee - the Google Ad is for Peace Flags and Banners - even Google’s trying to offer up some suggestions 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/226 "2007-04-13T00:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Hee - the Google Ad is for Peace Flags and Banners - even Google’s trying to offer up some suggestions 😃 [/QUOTE] Huh. My ad says, “Fuck off back to MPSIMS.” Seriously, there are eight forums on this board which provide opportunity for conversation, debate, engagement, criticism, opinions, or whining that do not allow vitriol. If the Pit bothers you so much, why not stay out of it? Many other posters do. Some of us are, by nature, Pit denizens; some of us are, by nature, not. You’re not. Why do you feel so obsessed with “improving” those of us who are? ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/227 "2007-04-13T01:27:35Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] This post is just about answering this one post. To those of you arguing about Pit rules, please pass right on by. I’m not a Christian, so if you are, I think I’m reading a Christian pastor author that I interpret to be disagreeing with you here. His name is John Ortberg and his book is “Everybody’s Normal Till You Get to Know Them” and the chapter is called “Put Down Your Stones.” It is about John Eight. It is about a woman that was caught with a man, not her husband, and dragged out to be stoned. As she was about to be stoned, Jesus wrote some things in the sand and people put down the stones and walked away. Ortberg notes that scholars speculate that what Jesus may have been writing was the sins of the people picking up stones. You seem to be saying that one can judge someone else as long as their sin is different than yours. I don’t think that’s what this Christian pastor is saying. And this quote probably doesn’t have to do with the argument here, but it’s my favorite quote so I’m placing it here anyway. From the same Ortberg book: That last line is always an interesting thought for me. [/QUOTE] I’m not exactly saying that the sin has to be different from your own, I wasn’t very clear. I am familiar with the John 8 story, Jesus does bring in the new law of the spirit or heart as opposed to the Old Testament law of rules and regulations. He points out that your intent or spirit is more important than following the rules. God looks at your heart and not just your surface actions. This passage also needs to be taken in context, the adulterous woman was brought out not just as a regular stoning, but specifically before Jesus by the Pharisees as a trap – if Jesus said the woman should not be stoned, he could be accused of violating Moses’ law. If he said to stone her, he could be given up to the Romans, because the Jews were not supposed to perform their own executions. So there is a lot going on in this passage, and many books and better minds than I have interpreted it. Anyway, I am not trying to turn this into a Biblical interpretation thread. My only irritation is that people use these passages as meaning to say no one should make any sort of judgement on others’ behavior, as if to say, we cannot ever tell someone what they are doing is wrong. Jesus was compassionate toward the woman but he also told her to leave her life of sin, to change her ways. This of course doesn’t mean anything to those who aren’t Christian, and I am not trying to make this about turning to God to change your ways or whatever. I only bring it up because the Pharisees were brought up several times in this context, and I often hear phrase “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” quote misapplied. I know it’s nitpicky and I probably shouldn’t have even brought it up here…I don’t know why I felt compelled to say this of all things after staying out of this whole mess from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Brandon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@Brandon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/228 "2007-04-13T02:20:36Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] If you’ve got something to say to me, just leave this faux-cutesy dancing around alone and come out and say it. [/QUOTE] I got something to say, you’re being a goddamn moron. You’re being a self-righteous bitch who thinks you’re somehow exempt from the very same judgment you try to put on everyone else. I’ve seen you say stupid shit before, but this by far takes the cake. Honestly, your thread was the epitome of jackaldom, if there is such a thing here. Not to mention junior moderation. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/229 "2007-04-13T02:50:09Z")
What would we call a kinder, gentler BBQ Pit, anyway? “The Crock-Pot?” “The Comfy Heating Pad?” ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/230 "2007-04-13T02:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] What would we call a kinder, gentler BBQ Pit, anyway? “The Crock-Pot?” “The Comfy Heating Pad?” [/QUOTE] How 'bout the FonduPot? Everybody loves fondu. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/231 "2007-04-13T02:59:00Z")
[QUOTE=gazpacho] If the pittee has not had there say then new stuff is being added and it is not a reposting of the same old stuff and it would continue. If it is a continual reposting of stuff then close the thread. [/QUOTE] And if you read the whole thread in question, as you claim, I think you would see that the pittee kept coming back with new shit, which was a reason why many of the points were repeated again and again, in – probably – vain hope that she would “get it.” Now, if the pittee had simply backed off and if the sorid mess had gone on for 10 pages, then I’d agree about invoking a mercy killing. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_a\_Platypus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d26b3c/32.png) [@Not\_a\_Platypus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_a_Platypus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/232 "2007-04-13T04:48:29Z")
[QUOTE=alice\_in\_wonderland] I hope not. I’m totally jonesin’ to call someone a platypus-rimmer now. [/QUOTE] I find this curiously arousing. I’m also not seeing why this ridiculous argument keeps cropping up. What is nasty, or crossing the line is so subjective there will _never_ be enough agreement to actually make or change any rules. Certainly things do change sometimes if enough people yell, but this is the Pit, for cryin’ out loud. The Pit! Even the name isn’t friendly or cheerful. It appears the majority of Pit Posters (which I’m not really one, since I’m more of a Pit Browser) don’t have an issue with how things are done here. The few that do take issue can yell all they want, but I don’t think anything will be accomplished anytime soon. I agree things are sometimes out of line, but I don’t have any particular post or thread in mind. Usually if I come across one I might think “Wow, that was fucked up,” but then I move on, 'cause vicious posting is typical here. It’s expected. Besides, what if the person that was flamed doesn’t think it was out of line? Take **alice’s** grandma, for example. She doesn’t seem too bothered by a comment like that, but a bystander may have read it and been wetting themselves with self-righteous anger. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/233 "2007-04-13T05:10:55Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] What would we call a kinder, gentler BBQ Pit, anyway? “The Crock-Pot?” “The Comfy Heating Pad?” [/QUOTE] We call it MPSIMS, where **QG** and **Auto** et al should go hang out and leave us cranky mean bitchy judgmental assholes alone. And stay off our fucking lawn. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/234 "2007-04-13T05:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Huh. My ad says, “Fuck off back to MPSIMS.” [/quote] Gee. Mine now says ‘if the Pit is for Pitting, then everybody’s game’. > [@](#): > > If the Pit bothers you so much, why not stay out of it? Because it’s not ‘the Pit’ that ‘bothers me so much’. Which has been explained by not only me but several others. More than once. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/235 "2007-04-13T05:19:14Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Because it’s not ‘the Pit’ that ‘bothers me so much’. Which has been explained by not only me but several others. More than once. [/QUOTE] Well then you’re not communicating very well, because that’s not the message most of us are getting. Most of us are getting a whiney, holier-than-thou, “you need to do things _MY_ way” message from you. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/236 "2007-04-13T05:28:48Z")
Goddam! Why don’t you give it up already. You are acting like a holier than thou bitch from hell. Why do you fucking post here? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/237 "2007-04-13T05:33:48Z")
Well, somebody’s got to think of the children. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/238 "2007-04-13T05:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=alice\_in\_wonderland] Well then you’re not communicating very well, because that’s not the message most of us are getting. Most of us are getting a whiney, holier-than-thou, “you need to do things _MY_ way” message from you. [/QUOTE] Oh well. Perception comes from within and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/239 "2007-04-13T05:40:06Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Well, somebody’s got to think of the children. [/QUOTE] Dammit **luci,** I had worked myself into a lather of mild irritation, and you come along and make me laugh, ruining the mood. Damn you! ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708/240 "2007-04-13T05:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] Goddam! Why don’t you give it up already. You are acting like a holier than thou bitch from hell. [/quote] No, I’m actually not. But, hey, YMMV. You maybe want to get that leak checked. > [@](#): > > Why do you fucking post here? Why do you? If you’re so troubled, why not go read GD for a while and calm yourself. Or maybe check out a few recipes in CS? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackals-of-the-dope-i-pit-you/399708.md?page=13)