# Jackson and Grant on U.S. Money. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439 "2006-02-01T00:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/21 "2006-02-03T00:36:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Gandhi said many supportive things about Nazism. Cite? I’d be very surprised if you could actually come up with a genuinely pro-Nazi comment by Gandhi. Here’s a replacement Achilles’ heel for him, though (a new breakthrough in moral orthopedics :)). For much of his life, Gandhi subscribed to racist and “caste-ist” theories about how certain groups of people were just naturally more advanced and qualified for civilized existence. It wasn’t until his middle years that he renounced these ideas and became committed to radical egalitarianism and the abolition of all hereditary privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/22 "2006-02-03T01:30:35Z")
I sometimes see $20 bills with INDIAN KILLER written across Jackson’s forehead. That seems fitting, though of course it’s totally illegal. He certainly did [royally screw over the Cherokee](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2959.html), among many other tribes as part of his policy of “Indian removal,” and that alone makes me not want to see him on my currency. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/23 "2006-02-03T01:47:16Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I sometimes see $20 bills with INDIAN KILLER written across Jackson’s forehead. That seems fitting, though of course it’s totally illegal. [Not necessarily.](http://www.bep.treas.gov/document.cfm/18/104) It’s only illegal to write on U.S. currency in a way that will render it “unfit for circulation”. So, for example, it would be illegal to use a magic marker to black out the serial numbers and denomination. Writing “Indian Killer” or “Happy Birthday, Billy” is probably allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/24 "2006-02-03T02:02:53Z")
This page is full of quotes by Ghandi that will make your head spin. I’m not even going to try to pick one. The man was a self-aggrandizing, freakish asshole. [http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm](http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/25 "2006-02-03T02:23:28Z")
But **Aeschines** , none of Gandhi’s remarks quoted on your linked page actually have anything to do with Nazism _per se_, as they all date from before 1915 (except for the _Autobiography_ quotes that express different views). They **are** strongly racist, though. As I wrote above, during his early years Gandhi still subscribed to popular European theories about superior and inferior races. And he was quite a bit more uncritical about the British Empire and its role in the world than he later became. The author of the linked page is simply using “Nazism” to equate to “racist oppression” in general, particularly that of the colonial British against the Africans. And the author seems to have some racism issues of his/her own to deal with: > [@](#): > > None of these leaders had any deeper understanding of Hinduism, British India, or the complexities of Gandhi’s convoluted multi-layered Hindu mind. :dubious: > [@Aeschines](#): > > The man was a self-aggrandizing, freakish asshole. Nah, I don’t buy it. He certainly could be wrong at times, though. But we still haven’t seen any actual evidence that he made any statements in support of the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/26 "2006-02-03T02:32:00Z")
The Ukrainian 5-note has Bogdan Khmielnycki on it. His Cossack uprising against Poland in the 17th century slaughtered more than 50,000 Jews (who had been posted in Ukraine as employees of the Polish crown and were highly resented.) Was this massacre wrong? Yes, I’d say. That didn’t stop Ukraine from putting its leader on their currency. He was a folk hero of the Ukrainian people. Even though they traded their Polish oppressors for Russian oppressors, they were free for a few glorious moments - so, predictably, they were willing to overlook the deaths of “a few Jews.” Us overlooking the deaths of a “few Indians” is basically the same phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/27 "2006-02-03T05:45:56Z")
> [@](#): > > **Mr. Moto** : Let’s not forget that Jackson was a hero to a large faction of a major political party - Southern Democrats. “Southern Democrats” hadn’t even had time to become a faction yet since the Democratic Party was just forming. Jackson was a _national_ hero, but probably a little less popular with Southerners than with citizens in the North. Jackson and the Yanks supported high tariffs and the Southerners didn’t. He was still considered the best option though. He was a very popular President. (In his second election he had 56 percent of the popular vote and five times as many electoral votes as his closest opponent.) I’ve lived in Nashville for over forty years and have refused to visit his residence which is open to the public. We look back at the way that Jackson was responsible for the deaths and mistreatment of so many American Indians and we are horrified that Jefferson and Washington had slaves. We think that we would never have a frame of mind that would allow us to treat anyone as less than fully human. But as I watched the President step from the plane here in Nashville yesterday, I was struck by the long line of men (white, I think) waiting to greet him at the foot of the steps. There must have been twelve or fifteen. The only woman was kept separate. She was selected to be there to receive an award for her volunteer work. Until that airport line reflects the makeup of my community, I don’t think we have expanded our consciousness much beyond that of what Jefferson and Jackson accepted as normal. Let’s put a female President on U.S. money. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/28 "2006-02-03T11:59:05Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I sometimes see $20 bills with INDIAN KILLER written across Jackson’s forehead. That seems fitting, though of course it’s totally illegal. He certainly did [royally screw over the Cherokee](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2959.html), among many other tribes as part of his policy of “Indian removal,” and that alone makes me not want to see him on my currency. With respect to that monster being on the currency, it consoles me that it I get to sit on his face. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/29 "2006-02-06T14:05:27Z")
I noticed that many countries put scientists, authors, poets, composers and artists on their currency, changing them every so often. Is a concept like that too wimpy for the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Bertie\_Wooster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58f4c7/32.png) [@Bertie\_Wooster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bertie_Wooster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/30 "2006-02-06T16:11:35Z")
Well, Jackson, with his long wavy hair, is less easy to counterfeit than Van Buren or Quincy Adams would be. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/31 "2006-02-06T21:22:39Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I noticed that many countries put scientists, authors, poets, composers and artists on their currency, changing them every so often. Is a concept like that too wimpy for the United States? We put the above listed people on stamps not money. Though Franklin could certainly be classified as an author and scientist. Marc ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/32 "2006-02-06T21:22:20Z")
I once went to Spain with a Mexican friend. His face fell when he saw whom the Spanish had put on the 100 peseta note (not sure that was the denomination): Hernan Cortez (a.k.a. Cortes). For most Mexicans, especially those of a leftist political bent or who are sympathetic toward the indigenous face of the nation, this was almost like putting Hitler on a currency. In any case, a real slap in the face on the part of the Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/33 "2006-02-06T21:40:16Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I tried to answer, but the system ate my post. I was trying to say that the treasury can’t say why anyone on the currency was picked to be on the currency, but I will point out that Jackson’s veto of the Bank of the United States and Grant’s restoration of the Gold Standard both had major impacts on banking and helped contribute to the modern banking system. 😕 But Jackson’s “major impact on banking” was entirely negative. The Bank of the U.S. was later revived in the form of the Federal Reserve, which issues the notes in question. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/34 "2006-02-06T21:42:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’ll grant you Jackson, but Jefferson deserves to be on every monument, piece of currency, and stamp there is. You mistyped “Hamilton,” right? Jefferson was the man who had exactly the wrong vision of what America’s future should be (agrarian). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/35 "2006-02-06T21:47:11Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > “Southern Democrats” hadn’t even had time to become a faction yet since the Democratic Party was just forming. During Jackson’s life, yes. But they were an important faction in 1928, when Jackson’s face was put on the $20 bill. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_twenty\_dollar\_bill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._twenty_dollar_bill) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/36 "2006-02-07T02:14:37Z")
> [@Ty Cobb](#): > > I’d say drop all the people and go back to ideal like Liberty, lady Columbia, etc. Better yet: the cast of _I Love Lucy_, _Wizard of Oz_, _Starship Enterprise_, etc., the new mythological impersonations of what is great. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/37 "2006-02-07T02:57:48Z")
Everyone in this thread is thinking too much in the twentieth century. Jackson was put on US currency in the 1860’s. Grant appeared in 1886. Jackson was almost certainly used because of his connection to the banking system. Other than some early presidents, the banknotes in the late 1800’s had portraits of Secretaries of the Treasury and people associated with the US monetary/banking system: Robert Morris, Benjamin Franklin, Albert Gallatin, Alexander Hamilton, etc. Try NOT to put too much significance into what you think was political. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/38 "2006-02-07T04:15:38Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Jackson was almost certainly used because of his connection to the banking system. :eek: Why would anyone connected with the banking system want to put **Jackson’s** portrait on a note?! That’s like naming a synagogue after Hitler because of the important role he played in Jewish history! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/39 "2006-02-07T15:10:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: Why would anyone connected with the banking system want to put **Jackson’s** portrait on a note?! That’s like naming a synagogue after Hitler because of the important role he played in Jewish history! An excellent analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439/40 "2006-02-07T15:29:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: Why would anyone connected with the banking system want to put **Jackson’s** portrait on a note?! That’s like naming a synagogue after Hitler because of the important role he played in Jewish history! Because when Jackson’s face first got on the bill, the economic orthodoxy was for hard money and for state banks. Bankers and economists at the time thought Jackson was good for American banking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jackson-and-grant-on-u-s-money/342439.md?page=3)