# Jaded blue-collar coffee anti-elitism rears its ugly head **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404 "2007-02-01T12:46:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/261 "2007-02-06T23:44:47Z")
**Starbucks To Begin Sinister ‘Phase Two’ Of Operation** > **[The Onion | America's Finest News Source.](https://www.theonion.com/)** > > The Onion brings you all of the latest news, stories, photos, videos and more from America's finest news source. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/262 "2007-02-07T00:07:01Z")
I actually prefer [this](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29030) one. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/263 "2007-02-07T01:36:52Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Oh, please. Get your knickers in a twist all you want, but it’s still terminology that’s confusing to everybody not in the coffee subculture. The names being used are for exaggerated importance or dignity, not for clarity of ordering. We’ve seen that attested to in this thread. Some day “latte” might be adopted into the vernacular as “pizza” has been. [/QUOTE] I love the term “Coffee Subculture”. I wonder if there is a Coffee Agenda like the Gay Agenda. The mid-west and the coasts might as well be two different planets sometime. You can’t get good BBQ out here in Oregon (we have a totally different idea of what “brownies” are), but I think our kids are disappointed that their mother’s milk isn’t steamed first. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/264 "2007-02-07T03:37:46Z")
[QUOTE=Wolfian] Look at me! I’m a SOCCER MOM! La-di FRICKIN DA! [/QUOTE] “I’m gonna go park my _minivan_ down by the _ **RIVER** _!” [QUOTE=anu-la1979] Is that the Straight Dope standard on pretentiousness? I need some clarification, because right now my jaw muscles are extending my mouth outwards and upwards, showing my (orthodontically perfected) teeth, the end result of social evolution in primates developed to indicate submission, fear, now primarily friendliness. [/QUOTE] Cool—now I’m picturing this conflict as a cage match between “Matt Foley, Motivational Speaker” and Mr. Howell. Finally, the pop culture imagery I require in order to relate! ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/265 "2007-02-07T03:58:30Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] You can’t get good BBQ out here in Oregon (we have a totally different idea of what “brownies” are) [/quote] Are they made of…\…_meat??!!_ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/266 "2007-02-07T05:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] When you say “burned flavor”, are you talking _dark roasted_ coffee? Because a lot of folks, myself included, _do_ legitimately enjoy that, and not strictly at \*$ either. [/QUOTE] Actually, proper dark roasted coffee, which I don’t prefer, doesn’t taste burned. What I am talking about is just “a cup of black coffee, please” ordered at Starbucks, three different times, at two different starbucks. Tasted burned. I was informed at length by the teenager who served me that my tastes were insufficiently educated, and that the proper flavor must retain the essential “roasted” character. OK, whatever floats your boat. I love coffee, and had been drinking it for several of that young man’s lifetimes. Good coffee, bad coffee, and then coffee I learned to make from a chef, and a coffee importer. The plain old ordinary coffee at Starbucks sits in urns for god knows how long, and tastes burned, even when fresh. Serve your coffee within seventeen minutes. After that, the oils separate and begin to go rancid. Tris ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/267 "2007-02-07T07:02:28Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] Actually, proper dark roasted coffee, which I don’t prefer, doesn’t taste burned. What I am talking about is just “a cup of black coffee, please” ordered at Starbucks, three different times, at two different starbucks. Tasted burned. I was informed at length by the teenager who served me that my tastes were insufficiently educated, and that the proper flavor must retain the essential “roasted” character. OK, whatever floats your boat. I love coffee, and had been drinking it for several of that young man’s lifetimes. Good coffee, bad coffee, and then coffee I learned to make from a chef, and a coffee importer. The plain old ordinary coffee at Starbucks sits in urns for god knows how long, and tastes burned, even when fresh. Serve your coffee within seventeen minutes. After that, the oils separate and begin to go rancid. Tris [/QUOTE] I think what you are tasting is Starbucks “City Roast” which is a darker roast than is used for most drip coffee; I think they overdo it. They have a timer on their drip coffee so that it does not sit too long ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/268 "2007-02-07T07:04:21Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] Are they made of…\…_meat??!!_ :eek: [/QUOTE] In Kansas City “brownies” are the crisp bits at the end of BBQ. You can order them at Arthur Bryants. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/269 "2007-02-07T13:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] I love the term “Coffee Subculture”. I wonder if there is a Coffee Agenda like the Gay Agenda. [/QUOTE] It’s actually more of a menu. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/270 "2007-02-07T14:19:07Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > but it’s still terminology that’s confusing to everybody not in the coffee subculture. Bullshit. The word “latte” is no more confusing to anyone who’s lived in a major American city any time between now and 1997 than are the words “mayonnaise”, “spaghetti”, “pizza” or even “creme brulee”, all equally European in origin. > [@Lightray](#): > > The names being used are for exaggerated importance or dignity, not for clarity of ordering. What the fuck are you smoking? You think people say “latte” to look cool, but they’d rather say “espresso with steamed milk and a little milk foam on top, but not too much, please”, and “cappucino” when they’d rather say “espresso with lots of milk foam and maybe some steamed milk too”? You’re just reaching at this point, and it would be irritating if it weren’t so funny. > [@Triskadecamus](#): > > Serve your coffee within seventeen minutes How do you propose that a business serving such expensive coffee survive this way? Not to mention the extra employee(s) that would probably be required to actually keep changing the things every 20 minutes, hell, every 30 minutes, let alone 17. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/271 "2007-02-07T15:30:15Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] Bullshit. The word “latte” is no more confusing to anyone who’s lived in a major American city any time between now and 1997 than are the words “mayonnaise”, “spaghetti”, “pizza” or even “creme brulee”, all equally European in origin. [/QUOTE] I’ve lived and worked in a major American city at least a decade longer than that - during which time my building has had a ground-level Starbucks. And I’ve been a caffeine addict for longer than that. But I drink my coffee black. So while I assume a latte means the coffee includes cream or milk, I really don’t know what it is. I guess I have - um - undeveloped taste buds or something. Because I always thought the holy trinity of coffee, cream, and sugar pretty much covered all the bases sufficiently. The finer distinctions just aren’t important enough to me to form an opinion, not to mention learn the vocabulary. If I want something creamy or sweet but coffee flavored, I’ll go to Arby’s for a Jamocha shake, or buy some Jamocha/Almond/Fudge ice cream. I guess I’m a crank and a fossil, but it works for me. ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/272 "2007-02-07T15:32:20Z")
Jeez… what a thread. And now I’m adding my own handful of change to it. First of all – I like that **fetus** is proud of her (?) ability to make a good cappucino. I think it’s great when people take their work seriously and display an appropriate amount of pride in their work. My only little quibble is that I don’t believe it’s necessary to make it into a competition with other food or beverage servers by insisting that making a good cappucino is obviously much more difficult than making a good banana split or a good bacon cheeseburger. All of these things require some effort to learn to do well, and it’s right for the people doing this work to take pride in it. The pretentiousness of coffee-house names: I don’t know – the furor over this escapes me. Lots of consumer goods are pretentiously named. I just call stuff what the people who are selling it to me call it. Seems easiest. I usually drink a latte at a coffee-house – not because I’m trying to be pretentious, though. I just find coffee-house coffee to be too strong and I prefer a latte. Anyway, if I was at a coffee-house that chose to label their lattes as something else, and I could determine that from the menu, I would just use their term when ordering. If lattes aren’t listed on the menu, then I ask: “What’s your version of a latte?” Same thing with the sizes – if it’s clear from the menu, then I order using their term. If it isn’t clear from the menu, then I ask: “Which is the smallest size?” Ta-da. Silly names are no different than pretentious ones, BTW. If I’m at Dennys, I just go ahead and order the Rooty-Tooty-Fresh&Fruity breakfast if that’s what I want. It’s easier and quicker all around. It’s not like my tongue is going to fall out of my head if I utter the words, “Rooty-Tooty,” “Frappucino” or “Grande Latte.” I have no problem with calling people who work in coffee houses ‘barristas’ either, if they prefer it. I wouldn’t have any problem with other fast food cooks getting upgraded names, too. Call the McDonalds guy a “fry-cook” and the Dairy Queen girl a “soda-jerk.” Why not? Finally – I think the customer in the OP sounds like an irritating jerk. Reverse snobbery is still snobbery. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/273 "2007-02-07T16:06:38Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] How do you propose that a business serving such expensive coffee survive this way? Not to mention the extra employee(s) that would probably be required to actually keep changing the things every 20 minutes, hell, every 30 minutes, let alone 17. [/QUOTE] Peet’s makes their brewed coffee fresh every 30 minutes. I usually go to my local during low traffic periods and have often seen them dump practically a whole urn of coffee because the half hour was up. Their menu includes “coffee with steamed milk,” which uses brewed coffee and which their website says other people call cafe au lait. They also have latte and all the other standard espresso drinks. Far superior to Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/274 "2007-02-07T16:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=Jess] Silly names are no different than pretentious ones, BTW. If I’m at Dennys, I just go ahead and order the Rooty-Tooty-Fresh&Fruity breakfast if that’s what I want. It’s easier and quicker all around. It’s not like my tongue is going to fall out of my head if I utter the words, “Rooty-Tooty,” “Frappucino” or “Grande Latte.” [/QUOTE] I recently saw a college one-act play competition. The use of “Moons Over My Hammy” in one comedy that took place in Denny’s actually made the whole thing work. Well, not “work” so much as “not completely suck,” but you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/275 "2007-02-07T17:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] How do you propose that a business serving such expensive coffee survive this way? Not to mention the extra employee(s) that would probably be required to actually keep changing the things every 20 minutes, hell, every 30 minutes, let alone 17. [/QUOTE] Tim Horton’s–an _extremely_ successful coffee/donut/lunch chain in Canada and the United States–manages to do it every 20 minutes. From the coffee page of its [website](http://www.timhortons.com/en/menu/coffe-beverages.html): “To ensure our coffee is always fresh, Tim Hortons brews a new pot every 20 minutes throughout the day…” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/276 "2007-02-07T17:42:11Z")
I believe that Starbucks doesn’t sell very much regular coffee. That’s why it’s not fresh. Most people get the espresso drinks, which are brewed to order. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/277 "2007-02-07T18:10:44Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] OK, whatever floats your boat. [/QUOTE] Of course you make sense, Tris. If you don’t like lattes, if you don’t like really heavy roast, if you don’t like espresso, if you don’t like coffee house atmosphere, if what you like is freshly brewed drip coffee, then you’re perfectly right to like what you like. It’s a matter of taste. What I can’t understand is the people who insist that because THEY don’t like lattes, or that THEY don’t like heavy roast, that nobody likes it, and they’re just pretending to like it because they’re poseurs. (I just love that word…“poseurs”…such a pretentious put-down against the pretentious!) You like what you like. The guy at Starbucks had you try something else, and you tried it and you didn’t like it. Of course, you might develop a taste for it if you tried, but who says you’re obligated to keep trying something you don’t like in the hope that someday you might learn to appreciate it? You have no such obligation. But the minivan-driving mom who stops at Starbucks for a latte after dropping her kids at soccer practice isn’t being a pretentious snob either. Rather the reverse…black coffee is in my opinion a more sophisticated drink than a little coffee drowned in a giant mug of warm milk. I don’t really care for black coffee myself, but to call a latte pretentious is kind of mind-boggling to me. It’s more like a kids drink, for crying out loud! ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/278 "2007-02-07T18:57:40Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] How do you propose that a business serving such expensive coffee survive this way? Not to mention the extra employee(s) that would probably be required to actually keep changing the things every 20 minutes, hell, every 30 minutes, let alone 17. [/QUOTE] I don’t propose that they do. But the coffee will still separate, and go rancid, whatever I propose or fail to propose. Were I still to go out for good coffee (And I may, once I decide that dying isn’t all that big a deal anymore, and I want some really good coffee.) I would go to a place that makes coffee in very small batches, and I would sit and enjoy the aroma, and perhaps some conversation for five minutes while they prepare it. Then I would allow it to cool in its ceramic cup to just the right temperature, and then finish it while it was still hot. Then, I would tell the waiter, “Damn that was good, get me another cup before it gets old!” Seven Eleven, where I live, does what you say cannot be done, in the well managed stores, where business is brisk, but predictable. The really bad ones brew up ten pots and then take a break, but good ones set up the grounds and filters before hand, and brew only ten minutes ahead of traffic. Years ago there was a local donut shop that did it too. America doesn’t really want the Coffee Shop business model, though. I watched dozens of them go belly up to the Starbeast. Coffee shops that care about coffee and conversation are pretty expensive, but they don’t take service shortcuts. Then they go broke, because the customer wants his sugar fix, and his caffeine fix right the heck now, dammit! To go! So, Starbuck’s serves the most profitable market, and should do so, since it is money that matters. But pretensions about fine coffees don’t hold up to actual facts. The coffee is fairly ordinary, and minus the attitude, the service is fast, if you know the required vocabulary. The public is sucking the stuff down at an incredible rate, and Starbuck Himself is banking the results. That means real gourmet coffee, and real “coffee shop” social settings are financially doomed. Not enough people really care. Tris ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/279 "2007-02-07T19:39:13Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] and Starbuck Himself is banking the results. [/QUOTE] Nitpick: The one point on which it cannot be denied that Starbuck’s is nothing but pretentious is its name. Starbuck cannot pocket anything, being a fictional creation of Herman Melville’s ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404/280 "2007-02-07T22:18:36Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Why don’t you do that, then? Sounds nice Mostly because I’d be fired and go to jail. > [@Dead Badger](#): > > Heh; I think one of the reasons barista annoys me is because it sounds vaguely like a revolutionary. “Ambassador, the Baristas have taken the port! We must flee!” That’s probably because you associate it with completely unrelated words in an unrelated language (Spanish). You know what the “-ista” suffix means in Italian and Spanish, right? It means the same thing as “-ist” in English. You know–like pianist, alarmist, lobbyist, motorist, perfectionist. > [@Lightray](#): > > “espresso with milk” = not pretentious, if you’re ordering in English. > “latte” = pretentious, if you’re not ordering in Italian. How do you order your mayonnaise? What about spaghetti? Bologna? Margaritas? Tacos? Do you abandon these perfectly fine words’ highly specific meanings to talk out an essay in English describing every detail of what they are? “Latte” has a more specific meaning than “espresso with milk”, BTW, and if you asked for an “espresso with milk” you could be ordering several different drinks. > [@Lightray](#): > > Also, I’ll admit that I’m associating negative connotations with pretention. Is that why you added your sly little gay slur in there, as well? Are you insane? OK, I’ll be more specific, since your reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking. Do you understand the concept of parody, or do you read everything at face value? I’m active in PFLAG and I’ve helped organize my school’s Day of Silence, so go fuck yourself sideways. > [@Lightray](#): > > Hey, Skippy? “Latte” is Italian, not French. Hey skippy, I wasn’t talking about lattes. You think I don’t know the names? > [@villa](#): > > Then I guess it does happen at times. I don’t think it is on the same level, but I could be wrong. Depends where you go–just like bars, right? > [@villa](#): > > And the fact that you say that “part of a bartender’s job is to weather the offensive idiots who drink too much” in my mind is one of the things that separates the jobs. Maybe not, but you can kick people out for being drunk. I can’t kick someone out if their little monster rearranges the entire bottled-drinks section (which happened recently). > [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > “Latte” does sound a little pretentious, though. Even if it is just coffee and milk, there’s just something about the word. Yeah. It’s in the mind of the listener who thinks it’s pretentious. Do you feel pretentious when you ask for mayonnaise? > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’ve lived and worked in a major American city at least a decade longer than that - during which time my building has had a ground-level Starbucks. And I’ve been a caffeine addict for longer than that. But I drink my coffee black. So while I assume a latte means the coffee includes cream or milk, I really don’t know what it is. OK, but does that really affect your life? And do you insist that people who don’t share your taste in coffee abandon the words they use to refer to specific drinks? It would only make sense, anyway–why would you order a “screwdriver” when you can ask for a “vodka with orange juice”, for example? That’s just pretentious. > [@Jess](#): > > her (?) Not quite… > [@Jess](#): > > My only little quibble is that I don’t believe it’s necessary to make it into a competition with other food or beverage servers by insisting that making a good cappucino is obviously much more difficult than making a good banana split or a good bacon cheeseburger. There is a major contention in this thread that my job is the same as working an entry-level job at Wendy’s (etc), and I disagree. And there’s a reason I’m not working at Burger King, Jack in the Box or Wendy’s. I could if I wanted to, but I don’t. I’m not trying to put down people who have that job, I’m just trying to say that mine is different and has a different (more glorious) history and a different (more refined, I believe) set of skills. Plus, I get paid better, with part-time benefits, company scholarships, etc. How would you like it if you started a thread about something that happened at your job and people came in and shat all over it by comparing you to entry-level McDonald’s workers? Again, I respect them for an honest day of work, but I’m as insulted by the comparison (generally replete with slurs on myself and that occupation as well) as I’m sure you would be > [@Jess](#): > > Anyway, if I was at a coffee-house that chose to label their lattes as something else, and I could determine that from the menu, I would just use their term when ordering. If lattes aren’t listed on the menu, then I ask: “What’s your version of a latte?” If I may take this ball and run with it, no coffee house would leave lattes off the menu, because “latte” is a widely understood (within its context) word with a very specific meaning, just like “mayonnaise” or “margarita” or “pesto” or “lo mein”. There’s nothing pretentious about it, it’s just another noun from a foreign language that refers to a comestible we got the idea for from another country. > [@zagloba](#): > > Peet’s makes their brewed coffee fresh every 30 minutes. I usually go to my local during low traffic periods and have often seen them dump practically a whole urn of coffee because the half hour was up. Their menu includes “coffee with steamed milk,” which uses brewed coffee and which their website says other people call cafe au lait. They also have latte and all the other standard espresso drinks. Far superior to Starbucks. I think Starbucks owns Peet’s now, don’t they? Anyway, you can’t tell me Peet’s is the best coffeehouse in any major city–there’s always a better local place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jaded-blue-collar-coffee-anti-elitism-rears-its-ugly-head/390404.md?page=15)