# Jail time between conviction and sentencing **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 18, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868 "2009-03-18T11:31:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/1 "2009-03-18T11:31:14Z")
Bernard Madoff is trying to get out of jail. I’m not surprised. I wouldn’t want to be there either. But he is appealing the decision to put him in jail now. He’s saying that he is entitled to remain free until the sentencing in June. Entitled??? 😕 :dubious: ☹ I don’t understand. He pleaded guilty. There’s no longer any presumption of innocence. It will take a few months until the government decides exactly what his punishment would be, but why should it begin then, instead of beginning now? The only answer I can think of is that there is an absurdly infinitesimal possibility that he might end up getting sentenced to mere probation, so they claim it is wrong to give him something more harsh, even for only these months. Could that be what his lawyers are claiming? Or are they just clogging up the court with paperwork that’s sure to be rejected? ---
**Author:** ![FORTRAN\_forever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f17d59/32.png) [@FORTRAN\_forever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FORTRAN_forever)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/2 "2009-03-18T13:01:52Z")
The claim that heard (I believe I read it online on one of the news websites, but I have no cite) was that his lawyers were claiming that they would not be able to adequately consult with him to prepare their case for the sentencing portion of the trial if he was in jail. I have no idea as to how much merit there is to that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/3 "2009-03-18T13:15:47Z")
That makes sense. In my opinion, no, it does not have much merit, but it does indeed have some logic. That’s what I was looking for. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![KnitWit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@KnitWit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KnitWit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/4 "2009-03-18T13:27:21Z")
I have heard people claim they used time between conviction and sentencing to “get their affairs in order.” I’m sure that time is needed, particularly if you have family. Financial matters, wills, etc. Which is not to say I think people are “entitled” to it, just that I’ve heard it granted for those reasons before. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/5 "2009-03-18T13:34:18Z")
I covered this issue here: [When you’re sent to prison, what happens to your stuff? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2276/when-youre-sent-to-prison-what-happens-to-your-stuff) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/6 "2009-03-18T13:43:21Z")
Actually, I guess I didn’t expressly cover the gap-time between conviction and sentencing in the staff report. The same principles apply. At each stage before surrender, the issues aren’t about punishment, but about flight risk and risk of additional offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/7 "2009-03-18T16:12:33Z")
> [@FORTRAN\_forever](#): > > The claim that heard (I believe I read it online on one of the news websites, but I have no cite) was that his lawyers were claiming that they would not be able to adequately consult with him to prepare their case for the sentencing portion of the trial if he was in jail. > > I have no idea as to how much merit there is to that claim. Isn’t that true of anyone? Are people without expensive lawyers “entitled” to this? ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/8 "2009-03-18T16:53:54Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > He’s saying that he is entitled to remain free until the sentencing in June. > > Entitled??? 😕 :dubious: ☹ > > I don’t understand. He pleaded guilty. There’s no longer any presumption of innocence. It will take a few months until the government decides exactly what his punishment would be, but why should it begin then, instead of beginning now? Well, let’s put things that way: even if he pleaded guilty, he has not been sentenced to prison _yet_. Meanwhile, who is to decide that he has to stay in prison ? Ok, I’m not an expert of US law, but French law says that he should remain free, except in a certain set of circumstance (risk that he attempts to evade the justice, manipulate proofs or witnesses, or threats to his own security, for instance). Isn’t it more or less similar in the US ? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/9 "2009-03-18T16:58:47Z")
It seems like the word “entitled” is 'causing some confusion. Most likely since he did a “plea bargain” there are a few details we haven’t heard _perhaps_ one thing he “bargained” for was to stay out of jail until final sentencing. I won’t go on my usual rant about how unfair bail is to poor people but that life. People with money always get special things. In jail he’ll live a much more comfortable life. For example I read the average corrections officer in Texas (state prison system) makes between 25lk - 30k. So you can visualize how easy it would be to bribe them for things if you had money ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/10 "2009-03-18T19:29:44Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Most likely since he did a “plea bargain” there are a few details we haven’t heard _perhaps_ one thing he “bargained” for was to stay out of jail until final sentencing. He did not do a plea bargain. He plead guilty to every charge in the indictment. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/11 "2009-03-18T19:38:35Z")
He’s still out on bail until his bail is revoked or he is sentenced and taken into custody. In the federal system non-violent offenders are often permitted to self-surrender at a time after the sentence has been imposed. Part of the issue is that the judge doesn’t select the facility. Rather than have the taxpayers pay for the guy to be put in a temporary facility and then moved, they often are permitted to wait until they are notified of a time and place to surrender. But this guy hasn’t been sentenced yet. He’s either on bail, or he isn’t. The judge can certainly reconsider bail now that the guy has been convicted, but that decision doesn’t have anything to do with punishment. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/12 "2009-03-18T19:38:44Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > He did not do a plea bargain. He plead guilty to every charge in the indictment. That part blew me away. Why would his lawyers let him make a blind plea like that? It doesn’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/13 "2009-03-18T19:42:13Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > That part blew me away. Why would his lawyers let him make a blind plea like that? It doesn’t make any sense. Is it necessarily true that they “let” him? In any case, I can think of reasons he would do this, even excluding genuine remorse. For example, by not dealing with the prosecutors, he made sure they had no leverage with which to persuade him to give up details about his co-conspirators or the location of the funds. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/14 "2009-03-18T19:45:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > In any case, I can think of reasons he would do this, even excluding genuine remorse. For example, by not dealing with the prosecutors, he made sure they had no leverage with which to persuade him to give up details about his co-conspirators or the location of the funds. That’s been the main reason that the press has been throwing around. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/15 "2009-03-18T19:49:14Z")
He’s probably going to have to divulge what funds he has anyway if the court orders restitution and forfeiture, as I’m sure it will. Was the indictment against him that rock solid that none of it could be challenged? If you’re facing the rest of your life in prison, why not fight and try to stay free as long as you can? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/16 "2009-03-18T19:55:57Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > He’s probably going to have to divulge what funds he has anyway if the court orders restitution and forfeiture, as I’m sure it will. If he’s going to prison for life anyway, how can they enforce such an order? Or… maybe that’s exactly it. Maybe, since he knows he’s going to prison forever either way, he’s using this as a way to gain perks in prison. Does it ever work like that? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/17 "2009-03-18T19:56:01Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > He’s probably going to have to divulge what funds he has anyway if the court orders restitution and forfeiture, as I’m sure it will. Was the indictment against him that rock solid that none of it could be challenged? If you’re facing the rest of your life in prison, why not fight and try to stay free as long as you can? Well, your last sentence tells the story there. If he refuses to testify about his assets, they can jail him for contempt. I doubt he’ll notice. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/18 "2009-03-18T20:08:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Entitled??? It seems pretty obvious to me. If you haven’t been sentenced to go to prison, you’re entitled not to be in prison. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/19 "2009-03-18T20:21:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you haven’t been sentenced to go to prison, you’re entitled not to be in prison. But you are not entitled not to be in jail. Lots of people who are in jail haven’t been sentenced, or even tried. ---
**Author:** ![ClintPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@ClintPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ClintPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868/20 "2009-03-18T21:01:32Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > But you are not entitled not to be in jail. Aside from certain exceptions (which I disagree with and are pretty rare) you do have a right to not be in jail without a court making a determination that you should be held in jail. > [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > Lots of people who are in jail haven’t been sentenced, or even tried. Yes, but in general they have had a bail hearing where bail was denied or conditions were set for bail that haven’t been met or they are being held pending a bail hearing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jail-time-between-conviction-and-sentencing/489868.md?page=2)