# James Carville on the state of the election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 7, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597 "2020-02-07T19:31:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/201 "2020-02-14T19:59:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > He’s referring to words you typed and posted. You used the word “smear” to describe spreading around Sanders’ Castro praise. Do a text search if you’ve forgotten already. I said they would try to smear Bernie as a communist. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist – they have attempted to smear Bernie. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/202 "2020-02-14T20:01:32Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > [Sanders calls Carville a political hack. Carville retorts: “At least I’m not a communist.”](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/politics/bernie-sanders-james-carville-criticism/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1XfhfJBx4KFK5S84Y1PDJ2dZPZ71_tD-FIqs_2xutjc1bp1Yja9uADwTU) No, James. You’re not a Communist. You’re a pointless wonk with a big mouth. You are, quite literally, the ugly face of soulless, technocratic neoliberalism. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of Communism but at least it’s an ethos. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/203 "2020-02-14T20:04:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He said Bernie’s a communist. So did Trump. > > That’s ridiculous. Carville is wrong. He’s worse than wrong. He’s a liar. I mean, Trump’s such a dumb shit that I can just about believe that he really thinks Bernie really is a Communist. Carville doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt on that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/204 "2020-02-14T20:22:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I said they would try to smear Bernie as a communist. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist – they have attempted to smear Bernie. They don’t have to use the word. They just have to play the tapes. It’s very hard to argue with yourself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/205 "2020-02-14T20:27:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They don’t have to use the word. They just have to play the tapes. It’s very hard to argue with yourself. Bernie has never identified as a communist, and has explicitly rejected that label (and of course they’re going to use that word - they’ve been doing so for years!). And those tapes aren’t new (and I don’t think they’re nearly as damning as you seem to). Bernie has been well known as a self identified socialist for 4 years now. I don’t think it’s that scary any more. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/206 "2020-02-14T20:51:04Z")
And considering all the communists, authoritarians, and white supremacists Trump has praised just in the last 3 years, I’m skeptical that a 30 something year old video of Bernie that’s been well known and well spread for 4 years will really be all that influential. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/207 "2020-02-14T20:53:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bernie has never identified as a communist, and has explicitly rejected that label (and of course they’re going to use that word - they’ve been doing so for years!). And those tapes aren’t new (and I don’t think they’re nearly as damning as you seem to). Bernie has been well known as a self identified socialist for 4 years now. I don’t think it’s that scary any more. We’ll see. He didn’t even win the nomination in 2016 with democrats so that’s not the best argument. Now he’s going for swing voters and independents in parts of the country where socialist and communist are synonymous and about as negative as calling someone a pedophile. So agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/208 "2020-02-14T20:54:31Z")
Bernie seems like he might be a communist. I don’t think he’d admit it because it would damage his extremely high electability on his very popular policies of first World health care for USA and less power for ultra rich (more money than can be earnt in lifetime of vampire). But go Bernie. Hopefully secret commie ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/209 "2020-02-14T20:55:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And considering all the communists, authoritarians, and white supremacists Trump has praised just in the last 3 years, I’m skeptical that a 30 something year old video of Bernie that’s been well known and well spread for 4 years will really be all that influential. He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/210 "2020-02-14T21:00:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that. That’s not going to happen no matter what. This will be a clash of feelings, as it always is. I think Bernie brings the best chance of a feelings based victory. I don’t think socialism is scary any more. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/211 "2020-02-14T21:04:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that. I would argue that the only ones buying into “socialism is bad. Mmmkay” are the die hard Trump supporters. Most independents and dems already know the differences. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/212 "2020-02-14T21:09:25Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I would argue that the only ones buying into “socialism is bad. Mmmkay” are the die hard Trump supporters. Most independents and dems already know the differences. I’m almost positive you are incorrect. I daresay, most voters couldn’t name you one difference between the two. Nor do they care to really learn. Sure, they may like their police force, city parks, state parks, public libraries, fire rescue, public schools, publicly-funded roads, safe-to-eat-at restaurants, medicare, etc., but that, to most people, ain’t socialism. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/213 "2020-02-14T21:24:02Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I would argue that the only ones buying into “socialism is bad. Mmmkay” are the die hard Trump supporters. Most independents and dems already know the differences. I think you couldn’t be more wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/214 "2020-02-14T21:31:43Z")
This was from 4 days ago. Socialism is still the biggest liability in American politics. More than being atheist or Muslim. > **[Socialism and Atheism Still U.S. Political Liabilities](https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/socialism-atheism-political-liabilities.aspx)** > > While Americans' willingness to support a black or a woman as a candidate for president now approaches 100%, support for candidates who identify as socialist or atheist trails far behind. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/215 "2020-02-14T21:51:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think you couldn’t be more wrong. At 45% among independents saying they would vote for a socialist; I don’t think that qualifies as “more wrong”. That’s with in the margin of error or close to it. And after the primaries, I’d be currious to see an updated poll on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/216 "2020-02-14T22:07:31Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > At 45% among independents saying they would vote for a socialist; I don’t think that qualifies as “more wrong”. That’s with in the margin of error or close to it. > > And after the primaries, I’d be currious to see an updated poll on this subject. Ok you could be more wrong but not by much. The poll clearly shows being a socialist is the biggest political liability in American politics. And that’s using his own term. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/217 "2020-02-14T22:37:01Z")
Helicopter avatar warning against socialism, nice ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/218 "2020-02-14T22:39:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I said they would try to smear Bernie as a communist. Bernie is not a communist, and never has been. Calling him a communist would be a smear. Carville and Trump have called Bernie a communist – they have attempted to smear Bernie. L: I’m talking about his own words coming back to bury him in 30 second increments on tv. A: are you saying they will try to smear Bernie as a communist? L: It’s hard to characterize someone’s own words as a smear. Is the tape of Bloomberg a smear? A: I never said it was a smear. I’m not sure what you’re asking me about related to anything I’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/219 "2020-02-14T22:44:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He is a socialist. You want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism? In America? Good luck with that. …propaganda relies on a certain amount of “buy-in” from people in order for it to work. Arguing that many Americans aren’t going to have an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and communism is an entirely fair point to make. But this? > [@Loach](#): > > He may have mellowed with age but he has expressed a lot more solidarity with communist governments and communist systems than any democrat candidate ever. **He might as well be a communist.** As it is he is an avowed socialist which might as well be the same thing. This is entirely a different thing. This is buying into the propaganda. This is propagating the propaganda. You don’t fight propaganda by buying into the propaganda. Its entirely fair to argue that many will conflate socialism with communism. But that isn’t what you did here. You know that Bernie isn’t a communist no matter how much solidarity he allegedly has with communist governments and systems. It isn’t even close to the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/220 "2020-02-14T22:47:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s nuts. Bernie’s advocating for policies like Canada, Denmark, Finland, etc. _You_ know that. _I_ know that. But the majority of voters will only hear “Socialist” and “Communist” and that’s more than enough to send him crashing down. And you must realize that many–maybe a plurality–of US voters already think that Canada, Denmark, and Finland _are_ Communist states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597.md?page=12)