# James Carville on the state of the election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 7, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597 "2020-02-07T19:31:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/141 "2020-02-09T00:09:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m not espousing it. I’m saying that it is absolutely true. Almost everyone does it especially in the voting booth. > > Just ask yourself this. Who do you care about more? Your family or my family? Everyone does not do it. The Greatest Generation is an prime example. When we work together as a society we have achieved great things. Now, we have people like you arguing that what is best for you is the highest goal, screw everyone else. You do not want to spend a single dollar helping anyone else unless you deign to do so. That is Ayn Rand (objectivism) and that philosophy is horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/142 "2020-02-09T00:13:07Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I don’t even live in America. I have my own battles to fight. In that case, so do I, and this ain’t one of them anymore. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/143 "2020-02-09T00:15:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > That doesn’t just apply to transgender issues. It applies to the entire spectrum. Its what this debate is about. People are advocating they cast niche issues aside to focus on issues that will win the middle. But if you are willing to throw transgender people under the bus then I have no doubt they would throw black people under the bus and any other marginalised people under the bus in the pursuit of “votes from the middle.” > > Marginalised people are used to being “cast aside.” Nothing you say is a revelation. The only way to stop being cast aside is to speak up and be heard. Nobody is saying to throw transgender people under the bus. And you are right, the transgender issue is just an example which has been overused in this thread (by me included). These niche issues (Medicare for all, student loan forgiveness) are not winning campaign issues. That’s all Carville is saying. Nobody is saying that there are not important to some people. But if you don’t win the election, then you can’t do anything for anyone. Would transgender people rather vote for a Dem candidate who downplays the issue but will support them once in office, or vote for Donald Trump? You know the answer, so I’m not sure why you keep arguing that these niche issues need to be front and center, blasted from the rooftops. You think that these are not niche issues, but vitally important ones. However, you are not the undecided voter than each side is trying to persuade. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/144 "2020-02-09T00:15:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Trumps ban on transgender people in the military was done by tweet. The original ban was overturned in part due to activism. The courts are of course important. Which is why talking about these issues and keeping them from being swept under the carpet is (IMHO) important. I am not in any way discounting the use of activism in general. I am discounting activism strategies as useful in a particular Presidential election. If this election hinged on Prohibition, I might feel differently. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/145 "2020-02-09T00:19:45Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Bernie voters have heard “Bernie Bro” for too long to give their votes to another candidate…and I’m seeing a lot of “NeverBernies” too. What you’re saying is, Bernie voters are so hypersensitive that they’ll intentionally let the country go to shit by purposely helping Donald Trump get reelected, all because their little Instagram-addicted egos were bruised? Here’s the thing about voting: it’s a civic activity, meaning that it’s not just for the benefit of the individual who’s voting; it’s supposed to be an act of civic duty, to preserve good governance, the common welfare, a more perfect nation and all that. Bernie Sanders’ supporters – all progressive supporters who really should know better – have a responsibility to stop sniveling over the defeat of their preferred candidate, to get over it, and to vote against Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/146 "2020-02-09T00:20:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Everyone does not do it. The Greatest Generation is an prime example. > > When we work together as a society we have achieved great things. > > Now, we have people like you arguing that what is best for you is the highest goal, screw everyone else. You do not want to spend a single dollar helping anyone else unless you deign to do so. > > That is Ayn Rand (objectivism) and that philosophy is horrible. Did you miss the part where I said that I don’t argue in favor of it? Again, I am just observing that it is true. I’m not saying that no charity exists. I’m saying that when it comes down to my family versus the neighbor’s family I choose my family. You do the same thing. If you don’t understand that, then Carville is talking to you. If you want to argue that point, then just send a check to me in the amount that you have spent on your kids so I can use that for my kids as you value all children equally. I’m not sure what the Greatest Generation has to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/147 "2020-02-09T01:08:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Nobody is saying to throw transgender people under the bus. …except for the people who are content for transgender people to get thrown under the bus. > [@](#): > > These niche issues (Medicare for all, student loan forgiveness) are not winning campaign issues. That’s all Carville is **saying**. Nobody is saying that there are not important to some people. But if you don’t win the election, then you can’t do anything for anyone. A correction to the bolded: this is what Carville is **arguing**. Carville is arguing that these aren’t winning campaign issues. We won’t know that until the campaign fully plays out. > [@](#): > > Would transgender people rather vote for a Dem candidate who downplays the issue but will support them once in office, or vote for Donald Trump? I won’t speak for transgender people. But how would transgender people know that a Dem candidate who downplays the issue will support them once in office? Why would they believe that a candidate who responded with that evasive wishy-washy statement that you made earlier would all of a sudden change when they got into power? > [@](#): > > You know the answer, so I’m not sure why you keep arguing that these niche issues need to be front and center, blasted from the rooftops. Except I haven’t argued these niche issues need to be front and center, blasted from the rooftops. I’m perfectly happy that there are candidates who take the issue seriously: we know this because of their policy statements, because of what they’ve said when questioned during debates and interviews and because what they’ve occasionally said at a rally. The people putting this “front and center” at the moment are those that are complaining that the issue is “front and center.” > [@](#): > > You think that these are not niche issues, but vitally important ones. I literally called them niche issues. WTF are you talking about? > [@](#): > > However, you are not the undecided voter than each side is trying to persuade. The Republican Party have mastered the art of lying in order to convince the middle that they should vote for them. I don’t think the Dems copying the GOP is a winning strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/148 "2020-02-09T01:19:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I am not in any way discounting the use of activism in general. I am discounting activism strategies as useful in a particular Presidential election. If this election hinged on Prohibition, I might feel differently. …my comment on activism was entirely in response to what it was you said to me. I’m not advocating for anything more from the current candidates for President than what they’ve said and done already (in regards to transgender people) . People are arguing they should be saying and doing \*\*less \*\*than what they’ve done: that they should self-censor and be evasive for the sake of “winning the middle.” I think that its those people that are amplifying the issue and I think they are playing into the hands of the GOP when they do so. The GOP don’t even have to get their hands dirty here. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/149 "2020-02-09T01:19:15Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Did you miss the part where I said that I don’t argue in favor of it? Again, I am just observing that it is true. > > I’m not saying that no charity exists. I’m saying that when it comes down to my family versus the neighbor’s family I choose my family. You do the same thing. If you don’t understand that, then Carville is talking to you. > > If you want to argue that point, then just send a check to me in the amount that you have spent on your kids so I can use that for my kids as you value all children equally. > > I’m not sure what the Greatest Generation has to do with it. I’m saying that your selfish desire to only support things that overtly help you and your family, and oppose anything else, is counterproductive. I do not have any children but I support public schools. Why? Because one day some of those kids may be the doctor trying to save my life. I get that educating the next generation helps me. Whether it is art or science or a whole slew of other things. Again, we live in a society. Arguing that you only want to pay for the things that directly show a benefit to you is supremely short-sighted. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/150 "2020-02-09T02:12:15Z")
Two guys arguing in the bar, “But that’s a staw man argument!” “No, it isn’t. Besides, you just used a total _non sequitur_” "“Like Hell I did! Cite? Fuck you!” “Can’t say that in here, I’m telling!” “Can too, this place is a pit!” Then I woke up… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/151 "2020-02-09T02:30:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …my comment on activism was entirely in response to what it was you said to me. Thanks for the info. … ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/152 "2020-02-09T03:30:06Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > What a stupid thing to say. So kids entering college today are just meant to bend over and get shackled with ever greater levels of student debt because a bunch of fucking boomers with better jobs and lower mortgages were able to clear theirs? Because to offer them debt relief wouldn’t be _fair_ to the boomers? Fuck that! Well, yes, fuck that. Of course. But we have become a mean and small-minded nation. I remember hearing a radio interview with someone promoting a book about the labor movement and unions and so forth (Steven Greenhouse, maybe?). He said that once upon a time, people looked at the guy with a good union job with good benefits, and retirement, and security, and all that good stuff, and said “hey, that looks good. I’ve gotta get me a union job too!” Now they look at that same guy, and see that he has all that good stuff, and say “let’s take that away from him.” That’s why we’re doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/153 "2020-02-09T04:34:30Z")
I have never heard anyone say anything remotely resembling that sentiment, and I have talked to people ALL over the political spectrum including individuals so conservative and so enamored with Trump that it would make your head explode. I have never, ever heard anyone verbalize that idea. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/154 "2020-02-09T12:56:15Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > What you’re saying is, Bernie voters are so hypersensitive that they’ll intentionally let the country go to shit by purposely helping Donald Trump get reelected, all because their little Instagram-addicted egos were bruised? > > Here’s the thing about voting: it’s a civic activity, meaning that it’s not just for the benefit of the individual who’s voting; it’s supposed to be an act of civic duty, to preserve good governance, the common welfare, a more perfect nation and all that. Bernie Sanders’ supporters – all progressive supporters who really should know better – have a responsibility to stop sniveling over the defeat of their preferred candidate, to get over it, and to vote against Donald Trump. Thats a hell of a sales pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/155 "2020-02-10T02:26:45Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > What you’re saying is, Bernie voters are so hypersensitive that they’ll intentionally let the country go to shit by purposely helping Donald Trump get reelected, all because their little Instagram-addicted egos were bruised? > > Here’s the thing about voting: it’s a civic activity, meaning that it’s not just for the benefit of the individual who’s voting; it’s supposed to be an act of civic duty, to preserve good governance, the common welfare, a more perfect nation and all that. Bernie Sanders’ supporters – all progressive supporters who really should know better – have a responsibility to stop sniveling over the defeat of their preferred candidate, to get over it, and to vote against Donald Trump. I completely agree. But would you mind terribly if we wait until/unless our preferred candidate, who is currently the frontrunner by a large margin, actually _is_ defeated? TIA. Also, if you’ll notice, Dale’s post which you replied to also pointed out that there are Democrats who would vote for any candidate OTHER than Bernie? Why don’t you hold some vitriol back for them? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/156 "2020-02-10T02:30:51Z")
I believe he is in second place at the moment. Behind Buttigieg. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/157 "2020-02-10T02:32:26Z")
Hmmm…CarnalK or Nate Silver? Whose opinion should I trust? It’s a real conundrum… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/158 "2020-02-10T02:34:47Z")
Come on, man. I was talking about the delegate count so far. I’m aware 538 has him as the favorite. It was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/159 "2020-02-10T03:05:12Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Also, if you’ll notice, Dale’s post which you replied to also pointed out that there are Democrats who would vote for any candidate OTHER than Bernie? Why don’t you hold some vitriol back for them? If Bernie wins and progressives don’t vote for him, I would be pissed. Despite my many concerns about how he’d perform as president, having Donald Trump out of office is the number one priority. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597/160 "2020-02-10T03:07:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Come on, man. I was talking about the delegate count so far. I’m aware 538 has him as the favorite. It was a joke. Sorry. :o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-carville-on-the-state-of-the-election/847597.md?page=9)