# James Dobson, why don't YOU bend over and get some "correction"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065 "2005-01-10T16:57:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/41 "2005-01-10T23:38:46Z")
I am not sure if this is a joke or for real. [http://www.patriarch.com/spanking.html](http://www.patriarch.com/spanking.html) ---
**Author:** ![wireless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@wireless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wireless)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/42 "2005-01-10T23:40:34Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’m convinced sales of the rod will now skyrocket, as sadists and masochists rush to get this bargain sex toy perfect for the S&M market. Perhaps someone ::wink, wink:: should post a link or contact info on some relevant message boards so that just this happens. Might create enough of a “moral dilemma” for the manufacturers to stop sales? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/43 "2005-01-10T23:56:20Z")
> [@](#): > > It is even found in poetry as an alternative for the fasces, the rod-bound axe used to scourge criminals. Very enlightening post, **Maeglin**. One question, though. I was under the impression that the _fasces_ was not a literal tool/weapon that was used to scourge criminals, but that it was purely a symbol of the state’s rights to administer either capital (the axe) or corporal (the rods) punishment. Is this correct, or were they literally whacking the crap out of people with a rod-bound axe? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/44 "2005-01-10T23:57:49Z")
> [@wireless](#): > > Perhaps someone ::wink, wink:: should post a link or contact info on some relevant message boards so that just this happens. Might create enough of a “moral dilemma” for the manufacturers to stop sales? And it should get a fair amount of ironic hipster business too. “Hey, you gotta check this out. You know what this is _for_?” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/45 "2005-01-11T00:14:51Z")
> [@wireless](#): > > Perhaps someone ::wink, wink:: should post a link or contact info on some relevant message boards so that just this happens. Might create enough of a “moral dilemma” for the manufacturers to stop sales? I just realized, the Rod may already be manufactured by a sex toy company. If somebody thought there was a market for it, they could create a dummy corporation, and change the manufacturer’s mark on the product. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/46 "2005-01-11T00:19:31Z")
I mean somebody at the sex toy company who is legally able to do so. As you may know, the inventor of the Slinky came up with it as part of recoil absorbing system for the guns of an airplane. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@seal\_tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_tamer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/47 "2005-01-11T00:46:24Z")
I wonder when the Dobson Hot Sauce will be out in stores re the how saucing method of discipline. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@seal\_tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_tamer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/48 "2005-01-11T00:47:47Z")
I wonder when the Dobson Hot Sauce will be out in stores re the hot saucing method of discipline. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/49 "2005-01-11T01:00:35Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Was it just a Freudian thing? The answer, was that it symbolized those times his teachers would punish him and othe boys by making them do headstands and recite prayers while they whipped the soles of their bare feet with the preserved penis of a kosher bull. So, sometimes a pizzle is just a pizzle? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/50 "2005-01-11T01:10:30Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I just realized, the Rod may already be manufactured by a sex toy company. If somebody thought there was a market for it, they could create a dummy corporation, and change the manufacturer’s mark on the product. And having read the article, it’s made by an automechanic. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/51 "2005-01-11T01:10:33Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I don’t mind hearing your opinion on the subject. I just recognize it as a biased opinion, and accept it for what it is. If one views spanking a child (however softly or lovingly) as brutality to children, then I suppose you could argue that the Bible condones brutality to children. But everyone I know that spanks their children does not participate in brutality, at least by the accepted definition of the word. No blood, no bruises, no lingering marks. Many many kids do fine with the level of punishment that you describe. I do not, nor did I call it abuse. But not all marks are physical–so I question your “lingering.” I do not parent this way(spanking). > [@](#): > > I do think motive matters. I also agree with you that a rod with a cushioned grip is over the top. I don’t think a child should be spanked with no preceding or follow-on discussion. Hitting a child simply because he or she misbehaved is IMO indeed abuse. However, if the child is made aware of the consequences of misbehaving, and is confronted when caught misbehaving by calmly discussing what happened, why he did it, why he shouldn’t have done it, and why he shouldn’t do it anymore, then spanked, this is not child abuse. Most times, especially with a first or minor offence, the spanking portion of the sentence above can be removed. However, repeated offences require some type of negative reinforcement, and I haven’t found anything that works half as good as spanking. What of consequences? I used and use these to great effect with my kids–I also firmly believe in the removal of privileges. Again, like you, these cannot be arbitrary or put in place just b/c the child has ticked the parent off etc–discipline must be thought out, appropriate and effective. To me, spanking and the like does not meet this criteria. Again, nowhere did I liken it to child abuse–I said that it doesn’t work. And it doesn’t–it takes the focus away from the matter at hand (the misbehavior) and puts it on the inevitable inequity between child and parent. > [@](#): > > However, you seem to have built spanking up in your mind as violent abuse to set it up as a strawman you can easily knockdown. Chastening is not “Might makes right”, nor is it “a smack across the chops”. To insist that it is these things is dishonest. It is also dishonest to claim that those who spank their children “like the power they have over their kids”. I know no one who feels this way, and completely disagree with the notion that this is the predominant viewpoint of those who spank their children. No-you built your own strawman, called it mine and then demolished it. I never said that spanking was child abuse. I don’t agree that it is–I do think it is an ineffective, albeit common, way to discipine your kid. I agree that “chastening” MAY not be the same as the smack or even the use of this rod in the OP–for you. But I can also envision plenty of parents using the above Scripture as a rationalization for any amount of abuse of power and authority–and those kids can and do perpetuate the cycle onto their kids. Abuse? I didn’t call it that–I’d rather call it a shortsighted solution to a chronic problem. And sadly, yes–some (hopefully few) parents do like the power they have over their children. Example: I know a woman who, upon giving a Playstation to her son(Bday), told him that she was glad he had it, because it was one more thing she could take away when/if he misbehaved. That example does not include spanking, but it does show the mindset of at least one parent–I doubt she is an aberration(unfortunately). Frankly, the amount of poor parenting that I see even during one trip to the mall, leads to me to believe that many many parents want only to control their children, not foster their growth as individuals. I think that spanking is a part of that. To use Biblical support for what is in essence an unequal situation is offensive to me. Obviously, I am not going to change your mind. But think on this: that child has no recourse, no other place to go, often no chance to even explain or defend him/herself. To them, parents are omnipotent and god-like(to small kids, anyway). Ask yourself, why is it that we stop spanking when the kids are old/big enough to hit back with force? ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/52 "2005-01-11T01:29:11Z")
Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/53 "2005-01-11T01:33:33Z")
> [@Can Handle the Truth](#): > > Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 > > "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: > > Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; > > And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. > > And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." “Now, for the last time– **Clean up your room!!!** ” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/54 "2005-01-11T01:49:38Z")
> [@Can Handle the Truth](#): > > Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 > > "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: > > Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; > > And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. > > And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Seriously, do you know the historical context of Deuteronomy? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/55 "2005-01-11T02:10:05Z")
I read the title, and wondered what the hell Scotty did to piss you off… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/56 "2005-01-11T02:18:35Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I believe that lovingly chastening a child, when done correctly, can prevent larger problems in the future. It’s strange. I read that passage, and got all horny all-of-the-sudden. “Oh, momma, I’ve been a bad, baaad boy…I must be chastened…_lovingly_…” ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/57 "2005-01-11T02:26:01Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Seriously, do you know the historical context of Deuteronomy? I know the _hysterical_ context of it. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/58 "2005-01-11T05:07:06Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > **UrbanChic** > > The above is exaggerated. But guilt is a very important tool to Jewish parents. Phrases such as “How could such a smart boy,” (which must be said in such a way as to convey your lofty view of the boy) “do such a dumb thing?” (which must be said in such a way as to convey that the boy has failed you, failed himself, and that you wonder if it’s your fault for raising him) are commonly heard when you’re being punished. As I’ve said many times, you can only spank a child if you find out they’ve done something wrong. You can make a child feel guilty whether or not anybody ever finds out. You can even make them feel guilty from beyond the grave. > > This does cause some neurosis. But Woody Allen’s are more extreme cases than are usually found. > > Shlomo is, IIRC, the original Hebrew version of a name you know better as Solomon. Damn, and I thought Catholic guilt was bad. All we did was make Baby Jesus cry, we didn’t keep him up at night being tortured by all the things we did wrong. (eats chocolate chip cookies guilt free) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/59 "2005-01-11T05:13:06Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > If he doesn’t mind that he’s breaking his poor mama’s heart, and that instead of sleeping his father stays up at night staring into the darkness and wondering what he did wrong, and that he’s bringing shame to his family, then Shlomo can have all the cookies he wants… Alright, already! I ate some cookies, too! I don’t even know Shlomo’s parents and I feel terrible about it. ☹ (Doc, excuse the Protestants. They don’t know from guilt like a Catholic does.) > [@UrbanChic](#): > > If it’s not a joke, are children really being raised this way? My goodness, I can only imagine the hard-on a therapist must get when he sees the product of _that_ kind of household coming. Ka-ching! And you think it’s an accident most shrinks are Jewish? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065/60 "2005-01-11T05:24:17Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I am not sure if this is a joke or for real. > > [http://www.patriarch.com/spanking.html](http://www.patriarch.com/spanking.html) They probably wrote it as a tutorial for some of Anne Rice’s naughty books. Or maybe she wrote it for them. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dobson himself had written it. Is he still advocating squeezing the trapezoid muscle to stop misbehavior? He might as well publish a damn manual on how to inflict pain…Oh, wait a minute. He’s done that already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-dobson-why-dont-you-bend-over-and-get-some-correction/284065.md?page=4)