# James Frey lied. Yeah...so? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533 "2006-02-01T18:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/21 "2006-02-02T14:14:02Z")
One reason Oprah doesn’t like him might be because he doesn’t believe in God. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/22 "2006-02-02T14:20:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > One reason Oprah doesn’t like him might be because he doesn’t believe in God. Which according to Oprah, is Oprah. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/23 "2006-02-02T14:41:00Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > 98% of similar cases (and you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think half of all “memoirs” have the same exaggerations and lies) would barely be a blip on the media radar. Do you have a list of all the memoirs that are full of non existent people who take part in events that never happened to a guy who has no proof that he is what he says he is. > [@Omniscient](#): > > One thing that I noticed was that if Frey had even the slightest bit of savvy and smarts (he’s not a very sharp tack) he’d have killed Oprah on redirect. He could have diffused it immediately but saying he compressed timelines and added drama for the sake of readabiliity but the message and spirit of the book holds. Had he been the least bit political Oprah would have looked like an ass and the show would have been a dud for her. Perhaps he thought he could manage that…and simply wasn’t bright enough to do so. Good idea if he had been accused of compressing timelines and adding drama. Unfortunately what he had to actually defend was telling tales about things that never happened to anyone. The “message and spirit” of the book (excuse me while I throw up) is that those of us, like Mr Frey, who are willing to unflinchingly confront our faults can just, by force of will, overcome our failings. Well FUCK YEAH if they are only abstract imaginary failings, like pretending to have been an alcoholic or a drug addict or a hard core criminal, you can overcome them by typing the next sentence. If the irony of this escapes you enjoy his future works. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/24 "2006-02-02T18:20:56Z")
One thing not mentioned so far is the importance of memoirs in publishing these days. Young writers who come up with coming of age novels based on their experiences are finding that they can sell a lot better, and get a bigger advance, by turning it into a memoir. The problem is that memoirs, to be readable, need to have many of the same story functions that novels do. Many writers haven’t had the foresight to live a novel-worthy life, so they change things. Novelist can invent any characters they want - memoir writers have to worry about what real people think. It is fairly common for memoir writers to combine people into one character, and to change some stuff. The slitting wrists -\> hanging change is well within the bounds of what people do. Frey seems to have gone well beyond that. The other issue is that novels don’t get fact checked. I would hope that autobiographies do. Memoirs have been falling in between, so the publishers are saying that they’re like novels in a sense, and subjective, so don’t need fact checking, while readers are considering them true. I haven’t read that Frey changed anything from the novel submission to the memoir submission - though perhaps he did a mass substitution on his name. The good news for him is that he now has a good story arc for his next memoir. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/25 "2006-02-02T19:02:26Z")
I read the book believing it to be a real memoir and it does give it a different feel to believe he actually went through those experiences. I think part of the trouble he is in results from the original appearance he made on Oprah to discuss his book. She interviewed him about the events and he answered her as though they all happened exactly as he wrote them, he even told a little more about the events like the dentist visit, now shown to be false. He didn’t answer her as though he was expanding on the character or the scene in the book, he answered as though telling her more about the actual event he himself experienced. I remember she asked him how he could withstand such pain of a root canal with no medication and he said while horrible, it was easier than the mental anguish he felt over his addiction, blah blah. Of course she ate that up and I can see how now that makes her look like an idiot. If he wanted to tell the truth from the beginning and say ‘this book is based on my life but events are embellished for effect’ or whatever that would have been different, but instead he continued to tell lies about the events and said it really happened that way. IIRC, she even specifically asked him how he could give such detailed accounts of events that happened so long ago with such accuracy, and he explained that he had a diary and his medical and therapist’s notes to refer to. Everything he said in that interview gave the impression that the book was in no way fictional, but a straight memoir. If I was Oprah I would be upset too, not that he chose to fictionalize his book but that he did straight out lie to her on her show where she was promoting him and his book. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/26 "2006-02-02T20:05:34Z")
Good point, **Velma**. It explains why Oprah is so pissed off, but I still don’t see why everyone else is taking it so personally. I could even almost understand if it was a beloved public icon who pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes, but as far as I know, nobody knew who this dude was, so why not just relish a good narrative (if it is indeed good.; I haven’t read it)and write him off as a lying putz. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/27 "2006-02-02T21:29:18Z")
The false accusations regarding the police and the rehab clinic aren’t exactly kosher, and if legal action follows, that’s fine. Aside from that I have no problem whatsoever with this guy making things up and presenting them as fact. Authors of books regarding past lives, homeopathy, ghosts, psychics, pyramid power and so on do so all the time. One of the most depressing sights I’ve ever seen was one of Shirley McClain’s books in the non-fiction section of a bookstore. Caveat combibor, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/28 "2006-02-02T22:01:49Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I still don’t see why everyone else is taking it so personally. I could even almost understand if it was a beloved public icon who pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes, but as far as I know, nobody knew who this dude was, so why not just relish a good narrative (if it is indeed good.; I haven’t read it)and write him off as a lying putz. It’s because he used those fabricated “experiences” as proof of his thesis, which is that rehab is garbage and the only way overcome addiction is through willpower. A lot of people believed him, because he got exposure through Oprah. Also, as I said above, he still thinks he’s some sort of existential hero, instead of a common, ordinary drunk, so the “poor fools” who went to rehab are actually way ahead of him. His lies were in the service of an ideology. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/29 "2006-02-02T22:23:47Z")
I find those “hurt” by his writing to be a laudible lot, and some are actually [filing suit](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183304,00.html) against him. I have said this before, but I enjoyed the book, did not believe much of what I was reading, and certainly could not extract a “this is how to get sober” take-away message. Then again, I have experience as a health care professional, and never developed any major addicitions. However, all this guy did was conspire(with, I believe, his publisher) to sell books. Damn, I read the bible, but believe it to be false. There are a lot of people speaking every day on its gospel and the need to specifically follow its writings to achieve salvation. Go ahead, hammer away… ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/30 "2006-02-02T23:06:02Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > Do you have a list of all the memoirs that are full of non existent people who take part in events that never happened to a guy who has no proof that he is what he says he is. The 27 January issue of Entertainment Weekly had a quick side column that they called the “Truthiness Meter” (a nod to the **Colbert Report** ). It was a quick overview of several books which were published as non-fiction: _The Education of Little Tree_ by Forrest Carter Truthiness:1. Orphan Carter learns life lessons from Cherokee grandparents. The author wasn’t an orphan or Cherokee, he was a Klansman. _Roots_ by Alex Haley Truthiness:4. Paid another author $650,000 for unintentional lifting of material from a novel. \*Confessions of a Dangerous Mind \* by Chuck Barris, Truthiness 0. No explaination needed. _Angela’s Ashes_ by Frank McCourt Truthiness: 9. How could he remember word for word conversations from his childhood? Then they gave \*A Million Little Pieces \* a 6 on their meter. Not scientific but a good overview. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/31 "2006-02-02T23:23:58Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#): > > Remember that several years ago there was a controversy over the 1992 Nobel Prize-winning autobiography _I, Rigoberta Menchu_, which turned out to have been heavily fabricated. More recently, people poked holes the story of Frank Hopkins story around the time _Hidalgo_ was released. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/32 "2006-02-03T01:30:44Z")
When I select a book to read, I specifically decide whether to read fiction or nonfiction based on a lot of factors. Dishonesty bothers me. Basically, if Frey had released his book as a novel (which is how he originally presented it, according to _Publisher’s Weekly_), Oprah would not have picked it, and she’s the only reason sales were so high. Oprah made _A Million Little Pieces_ one of the top-selling books of 2005 because she believed it was true. Frey made a ton of money by duping her. She has a right to be angry over that. Incidentally, I own a bookstore, and when _Smoking Gun_ announced the lies and it hit all the big TV news shows, sales of the book went _up_ in my store (and sales of the sequel as well). Like they say, all publicity is good publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/33 "2006-02-03T05:59:21Z")
I just find it funny how pissed off Dr. Drew (on **Loveline** ) is about it. He’s a HUGE believer in that drug users cannot get off drugs without a clinical setting. I slightly disagree with that but when a book became huge saying just the opposite then was outed as false you could tell he was going to pop a cork. In his case he seems to take it so personally because it might cause people to turn away from actual help in order to try to do it all on their own causing them to harm themselves. ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/34 "2006-02-03T17:03:15Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Incidentally, I own a bookstore, and when _Smoking Gun_ announced the lies and it hit all the big TV news shows, sales of the book went _up_ in my store (and sales of the sequel as well). Like they say, all publicity is good publicity. I’m curious, **IW** , are your sales still up? In our store the book got a boost when the scandal broke, but since Oprah blasted him, seems like people are much more interested in the fraud than in the actual book. They’ll come in, talk about the whole mess and then buy something else. Oh, and Og bless the independent bookseller. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533/35 "2006-02-03T19:39:02Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > Oh, and Og bless the independent bookseller. 🙂 Sing it, brother (or sister)! I haven’t sold a copy in the last three or four days, but that’s not much statistical sampling in the off-season. I haven’t sold a Da Vinci Code in two weeks, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-frey-lied-yeah-so/342533.md?page=1)