# James Otto Sweet Heart and Damning Suicides to Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764 "2013-02-19T03:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 98
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1941 "2013-03-28T00:52:06Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > pulykamell, I just don’t understand beer as a food ingredient. Ingesting while flipping burgers on an outdoor grill, yes, but that’s basting my insides, not the food. > > But I’m game for anything. Is there a cookbook you’d recommend for cooking with beer? No cookbook. Just a couple recipes. If you like beef burgundy, then beef carbonnade is the same idea with beer. Posts #76 and #79 [in this thread](http://board.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16055929) have a couple recipes for carbonnade that I posted. I made the very simple version last night. For flavor-to-effort it’s wonderful. I’ll recap: 2 pounds stewing/braising beef cut into 1-inch or so cubes (preferably something like boneless short ribs or chuck, but I used top round last night as it was on sale.) 1 pound onions, cut into half-moons. 1 tablespoon (or even more) of butter 3 or 4 bay leaves thyme, salt, pepper to taste (I used about a teaspoon of dried thyme) two or three slices of bread mustard (preferably something like Dijon or a grainy, sharp mustard.) 12 oz of good Belgian beer, preferably a dubbel, sour, or old brown ale. If you don’t want to break the bank, look for New Belgium’s abbey ale. Also, Leffe Brown is good. I usually start by browning my beef separately. Then, in a Dutch oven, I melt butter, fry up the onions with a sprinkle of salt over medium-high heat until they turn golden (about 8-10 minutes), stirring often so they don’t burn. Then, add thyme, pepper, and your already browned beef. Pour over the beer. Some recipes say to cover the beef in beer–that’s not necessary. One bottle is fine for about two pounds of beef. Plenty of water will render out of the onions as it cooks, and you’ll get more concentrated flavor this way with less liquid, anyway. Add bay leaves. Spread mustard on a couple slices of bread (or gingersnaps) and place, mustard side down, on top of the stew. Cover. Cook over low heat or in a 325F oven until meat is fork tender, about 2-3 hours. Mix thoroughly to combine the bread and broth and thicken the stew. Adjust for salt. You might even want to consider adding a touch of vinegar if the mustard and beer didn’t give it enough of a little sour kick. I’m just liberal with my mustard and it works out fine without adjustment. Serve over oven fries/pommes frites/potatoes or broad egg noodles. Enjoy! For a recipe so simple, it packs a punch. You can make this using a mild stout like Guinness, but then it’ll be more like a beef & Guinness stew rather than carbonnade flamande. Cook’s Illustrated recommends Newcastle Brown Ale, which is a bit of an odd choice to me, as that’s a fairly bland beer, and you need a bit of sweet & sour & spice, in my opinion. I don’t really trust CI with their interpretations of ethnic recipes. You can also follow the same basic procedure, but substitute braising pork (like shoulder) for the beef, and use a decent dry to medium-dry hard cider for the beer and you have a delicious pork & cider stew. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1942 "2013-03-28T00:55:08Z")
> [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](#): > > ^^^ No thanks. I don’t go online in search of things that are nothing but vulgar. > God bless you always!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 > Holly Vulgar? God created the Throbbing Cock in His image\*, it can’t be vulgar by definition! \*Granted, Michelangelo didn’t do the Divine Cock much justice, but you must go forth and Seek that Cock! ---
**Author:** ![James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Otto_Sweet_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1943 "2013-03-28T00:57:22Z")
^^^ Some things can go without be acknowledged and to me something like that is one of them things. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Does this nit-wit understand that she doesn’t have to respond to every throw away joke posted on the internet. Fuck’s sake. There is plenty of stuff said in this chat that I haven’t responded to. Don’t you understand that you don’t have to continue looking at it if I get so badly on your nerves? God bless you two always!!! Holly ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1944 "2013-03-28T00:59:30Z")
Well, I love Guinness, so I could still try the version that you said would be more like "a beef&Guinness stew. I’ll have to wait until next week, after Easter, as I give up meat for Lent. But in the meantime there’s a good liquor store, Devlin’s, that stocks many many varieties of beer, so I can check and see if they have that Newcastle Ale you recommended. I’ll let you know sometime next week how it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1945 "2013-03-28T01:03:07Z")
I don’t drink beer but I’ve used it in stew, chili, pot roast, and ice cream recipes where it was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1946 "2013-03-28T01:14:32Z")
> [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](#): > > ^^^ Some things can go without be acknowledged and to me something like that is one of them things. Yet you responded, anyway. You KNOW you WANT that Throbbing Cock! ---
**Author:** ![James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Otto_Sweet_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1947 "2013-03-28T01:17:10Z")
^^^ I responded because that person is a hypocrite if they are going to call me weird. God bless you and them always!!! Holly ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1948 "2013-03-28T01:24:07Z")
> [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](#): > > ^^^ I responded because that person is a hypocrite if they are going to call me weird. > God bless you and them always!!! > Holly Bless you always, there’s nothing weird about you wanting some Throbbing Cock! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1949 "2013-03-28T01:34:51Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Well, I love Guinness, so I could still try the version that you said would be more like "a beef&Guinness stew. > > I’ll have to wait until next week, after Easter, as I give up meat for Lent. But in the meantime there’s a good liquor store, Devlin’s, that stocks many many varieties of beer, so I can check and see if they have that Newcastle Ale you recommended. > > I’ll let you know sometime next week how it turns out. Great! In order of preference and likelihood of finding it in an average liquor store, I would recommend the following beers for the recipe (and they will undoubtedly have Newcastle, but I don’t think that’s the best beer if you really want to do a to-style carbonnade flamande): Chimay Red, Leffe Bruin (that’s the dark Leffe, not the light one), Ommegang Abbey Ale, St. Bernardus 8, Westmalle Dubbel, New Belgium Abbey. In terms of bang-for-buck, the New Belgium Abbey, if they have it, is the best deal. A six-pack should run you about $8, whereas the other beers are usually around $4-$5 per 12 oz (although some of those only come in large bottles.) I strongly recommend going with one of those, or ask the proprietor for a good Belgian dubbel or Flemish sour/red/old bruin. I strongly recommend seeking one of these beers out. If you get a big bottle, just use half or so for the recipe, and enjoy the rest! The more I make this dish, the more I think the sour beers are even better than the dubbel in this recipe, but they both work very well. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Otto_Sweet_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1950 "2013-03-28T01:35:51Z")
^^^ Even if there isn’t, still no thank you. God bless you always!!! Holly ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1951 "2013-03-28T01:36:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > If you don’t want to break the bank, look for New Belgium’s abbey ale. Also, Leffe Brown is good. Sweet. I’ve been wanting to make this since you first mentioned it but I’ve never even heard of Chimay much less seen it in the liquor store. Every time you describe it, I just get hungrier. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Otto_Sweet_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1952 "2013-03-28T01:42:48Z")
Its kind of ironic that this chat just now got to its 40th page. I was just now put on the air by my favorite night radio DJ giving my two cents about age. I am one of them people who don’t care if people know how old I am. I have never understood why some people make such a big deal about the age that they are at when they should feel blessed that they have gotten as far as they have. 🙂 🙂 🙂 God bless you and my favorite night radio DJ always!!! Holly ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1953 "2013-03-28T01:45:23Z")
Hey, no need to get us wet with your thoughts during a brainstorm. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1954 "2013-03-28T01:48:06Z")
Oh, and if you go the beef & Guinness stew route, feel free to add a clove of garlic, a cup or two of cut-up carrots or mix of carrots & parsnips and/or turnips, and a couple tablespoons of tomato paste (I like to fry it up with the onions for about two minutes right when the onions are about done and before the beef goes in.) You could also add Worcestershire to taste. This I generally like with skin-on boiled quartered potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Otto_Sweet_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1955 "2013-03-28T01:53:50Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Hey, no need to get us wet with your thoughts during a brainstorm. What is so bad about what I said? Others have been put on the air and they pretty much see it the same way that I do. 🙂 🙂 🙂 God bless you and them always!!! Holly ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1956 "2013-03-28T01:54:17Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Sweet. I’ve been wanting to make this since you first mentioned it but I’ve never even heard of Chimay much less seen it in the liquor store. Every time you describe it, I just get hungrier. You need to rectify that. [This is what the bottle looks like](http://www.bobbygspizzeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/a2_a1_frouge.jpg). Around here, I typically find only the big bottle, but it’s available at a lot of regular ol’ supermarkets, so you don’t have to go to a specialty liquor store to find it. It may or may not be as common in your neck of the woods. Chimay Red (like other Belgian dubbels) is a very low-hop beer, with a sort of fruity and caramelly flavor to it. It’s kind of hard to describe. It’s usually in the plum/raisin/port and brown sugar ballpark. If you’re not familiar with Belgian beers, you might have a hard time identifying it as “beer” because it’s quite different than the typical beer you slug back a pint of. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1957 "2013-03-28T02:14:05Z")
You had me at low-hop. I know what my first mission tomorrow is. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1958 "2013-03-28T03:23:39Z")
> [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](#): > > I have never understood why some people make such a big deal about the age that they are at when they should feel blessed that they have gotten as far as they have. 🙂 🙂 🙂 Wait until you’re forty. You’re ugly now, but in ten years you’ll be hideous. And you’ll still be single and a virgin. True story. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Otto_Sweet_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1959 "2013-03-28T03:34:52Z")
^^^ At least I have the guts to get a shot of my “ugly” face online. How far are **you** willing to go? God bless you always!!! Holly P.S. If I am still a virgin by age 40, it will be because I **want** to be one at age 40. If the rest of the world is anything like you, I am most definitely **not** missing out on much. True story. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764/1960 "2013-03-28T03:46:49Z")
> [@James\_Otto\_Sweet\_Heart](#): > > If I am still a virgin by age 40, it will be because I **want** to be one at age 40 No, it will be because there are very few male adults who are attracted to a fat overgrown Fetal Alcohol baby. And those that are attracted to such an animal are typically over eighty years old. I read that in an anthropology journal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764.md?page=97) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-otto-sweet-heart-and-damning-suicides-to-hell/650764.md?page=99)