# James Randi calls time on the $1 million dollar prize ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263 "2008-01-04T12:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/1 "2008-01-04T12:30:24Z")
… do we care ? So in his [weekly newsletter James Randi announced](http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/144/27/#i4) that, from March 2010, the JREF will no longer be offering the $1 million dollar prize for a demonstration of supernatural abilities. The foundation will use the money to do something more useful instead. I’m torn on this, I’ve long thought that the prize has become too tainted by Randi’s involvement. He’s far too polarising to be the figurehead behind it, and he’s offered it to for such diverse abilities or technologies that it’s all a bit watered down. On the other I can already hear the cries of joy and shouts of victory from the psychics, the believers and everyone on that side of the fence. They can relax that the skeptics no longer have the “well prove it and win a million” comeback to beat them over the head with. Perhaps we need a large prize but sponsored by someone else, completely separate from the previous one but with the same goals. Is there anyone that could fill that role? What happens if Uri Geller (or someone similar) tries to start a similar fund with the aim of it being won. I really can’t decide if this is a good thing or not, my gut feeling is that it was inevitable but it’s a bit of a shame nonetheless. What do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/2 "2008-01-04T12:35:37Z")
Seems odd, so hot on the heels of the change in qualification procedures, but it’s not all that surprising really. I don’t actually think the project has been that big of a success - despite having mostly good intentions - it is inherently too easy for the psychics to just make up new excuses (bias, fraud, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/3 "2008-01-04T12:38:27Z")
It’s been about ten years, and no one has even pre-qualified for the test. It doesn’t matter if someone else runs the thing, because new excuses will pop up. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/4 "2008-01-04T12:40:40Z")
The prize does not seem to have diminished the number of people who believe in odd things, nor their determination to believe in them. A better approach is to pick and choose specific magic-mongerers and challenge them on an individual basis with something more akin to a wager. There is no chance the magician/psychic side will dole out a legitimate prize in a legitimate test. The good ones all know they are fake and they are not about to give money away to further the cause of their competitors. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/5 "2008-01-04T12:40:59Z")
I have a few questions: Is this like a “farewell tour,” i.e. is he trying to get more attention for the foundation by announcing that there is a deadline? Is JREF having financial difficulties? Is Randi having serious health problems? If either of these things are the case, I think that in fairness, they should be disclosed. Does JREF have any legal obligations to people who donated money towards the million dollar prize fund? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/6 "2008-01-04T12:42:20Z")
[QUOTE=Chief Pedant] The prize does not seem to have diminished the number of people who believe in odd things, nor their determination to believe in them. A better approach is to pick and choose specific magic-mongerers and challenge them on an individual basis with something more akin to a wager. [/QUOTE] How would that prevent the “negative vibrations” from skeptics from blocking the powers of the Blessed? ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/7 "2008-01-04T12:50:35Z")
[QUOTE=Chief Pedant] The prize does not seem to have diminished the number of people who believe in odd things, nor their determination to believe in them. A better approach is to pick and choose specific magic-mongerers and challenge them on an individual basis with something more akin to a wager. [/QUOTE] That’s basically what he does at the moment, contact specific people (Geller, Sylvia Browne) and invite them to take the challenge. I imagine what he’s going to do with the money is try and get more skeptical thinkers out there in order to try and help future generations avoid the problems he sees. Unless he’s going to start going after very specific things (creationism for example). It does feel to me that Randi is looking to his legacy now. I can’t help but feel that it must be possible to operate a similar challenge in a way that’s above (most) criticism. Maybe administered by a University or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/8 "2008-01-04T12:51:32Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I have a few questions: Is this like a “farewell tour,” i.e. is he trying to get more attention for the foundation by announcing that there is a deadline? Is JREF having financial difficulties? Is Randi having serious health problems? If either of these things are the case, I think that in fairness, they should be disclosed. Does JREF have any legal obligations to people who donated money towards the million dollar prize fund? [/QUOTE] I think the money is already set aside and that this has been affirmed and notarized, etc. I guess they could still be in financial difficulty and wanting to pull it back, but I think it’s probably just that Randi is a tired old man now and wants an end to it. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/9 "2008-01-04T13:01:46Z")
[QUOTE=SpaceDog] That’s basically what he does at the moment, contact specific people (Geller, Sylvia Browne) and invite them to take the challenge. [/QUOTE] I guess I thought it was set up as a prize that goes to a successful applicant, and not a wager where the putative supernaturalist also risks money. I thought Randi had specifically set aside money as proof that there exists an actual prize to be won… ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/10 "2008-01-04T13:04:48Z")
[QUOTE=Chief Pedant] I guess I thought it was set up as a prize that goes to a successful applicant, and not a wager where the putative supernaturalist also risks money. I thought Randi had specifically set aside money as proof that there exists an actual prize to be won… [/QUOTE] Ah, my mistake. It’s a wager only in that it’s the foundations money vs the supernatuarlists reputation. I was only pointing out that he does go out of his way to invite people to take the challenge, rather than just having it there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/11 "2008-01-04T13:39:56Z")
Maybe now it will get some attention. I’ve never talked to anyone outside this board that ever heard of it. I learned about it here. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/12 "2008-01-04T13:48:51Z")
From the link: > [@](#): > > Our expectations at first were that we’d attract major personalities by this means, but they’ve avoided having to take the test by simply not applying; those who have actually applied are generally honestly self-deluded persons who have difficulty stating what they can do, which can be understood if they really don’t know what they’re experiencing; we at JREF have gone through involved procedures to help them recognize their problems. Usually, they have indicated that they don’t know what real scientific rules are, when it comes down to their actually being properly tested. Sounds like they’re tired of wasting time and effort dealing with the crazies, while the big targets have sense enough to avoid humiliation and never apply for the prize. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/13 "2008-01-04T13:58:50Z")
Perhaps he’s had a prophetic dream showing the prize would be won in April 2010? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/14 "2008-01-04T14:31:36Z")
I found a copy of Randi’s offer: > **[Home](https://web.randi.org/)** > > JREF: James Randi Educational Foundation I know that Randi has refused to have the process video taped and made public. Psychics have challenged him to bring the whole process out in the open so the public can see it. Randi refused. I don’t know of any psychic that has tried to get the money in years because they see it as not truthful. But it keeps the skeptics happy. He is now going to withdraw it, seems appropriate sense psychics don’t take it as a serious offer. Now, are there such a thing as psychics? Well most of the general public think so. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies think there are psychics and use them in solving crimes. As for “cold reading”, it has never been proven there is such a thing. No contests between real psychics and cold readers has ever been conducted that I know of. No research, no studies, just a lot of skeptical talk. Noreen Renier is a psychic that solves crimes for the FBI and other law enforcement agencies. She has been doing it for 40 years and has worked on over 300 cases. They keep asking her to help. Is she really psychic, yes, and so are many other folk. Skeptics can believe what they will, there is a spiritual realm, there is a God. I know personally, so do millions of other people. > **[Noreen Renier - Psychic Detective](https://www.noreenrenier.com/)** > > Noreen Renier is a well known psychic detective working over 380 unsolved cases with city, county and state Law Enforcement Agencies in 38 states and 6 foreign countries. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross devoted her entire life to death and dying studies. A skeptic in the beginning she became a believer after investigating over 20,000 cases of NDEs and other death experiences. A few quotes from Dr. Ross: > [@](#): > > And after your death, when most of you for the first time realize what life here is all about, you will begin to see that your life here is almost nothing but the sum total of every choice you have made during every moment of your life. Your thoughts, which you are responsible for, are as real as your deeds. You will begin to realize that every word and every deed affects your life and has also touched thousands of lives. > > We run after values that, at death, become zero. At the end of your life, nobody asks you how many degrees you have, or how many mansions you built, or how many Rolls Royces you could afford. That’s what dying patients teach you. > > Dying is nothing to fear. It can be the most wonderful experience of your life. It all depends on how you have lived. > > If you live each day of your life right, then you have nothing to fear … > > Throughout life, we get clues that remind us of the direction we are supposed to be headed … if you stay focused, then you learn your lessons. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/15 "2008-01-04T14:37:51Z")
As this effectively removes an opportunity to say “put up or shut up,” can we now just say “shut up?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/16 "2008-01-04T14:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] As this effectively removes an opportunity to say “put up or shut up,” can we now just say “shut up?” [/QUOTE] We can _still_ say “put up”, because now they don’t have the “I’m not allowed to use my gift for monetary gain(nevermind the outrageous fees I charge)” excuse any more. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/17 "2008-01-04T14:45:42Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I know that Randi has refused to have the process video taped and made public. Psychics have challenged him to bring the whole process out in the open so the public can see it. Randi refused. I don’t know of any psychic that has tried to get the money in years because they see it as not truthful. But it keeps the skeptics happy. He is now going to withdraw it, seems appropriate sense psychics don’t take it as a serious offer. Now, are there such a thing as psychics? Well most of the general public think so. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies think there are psychics and use them in solving crimes. As for “cold reading”, it has never been proven there is such a thing. No contests between real psychics and cold readers has ever been conducted that I know of. No research, no studies, just a lot of skeptical talk. Noreen Renier is a psychic that solves crimes for the FBI and other law enforcement agencies. She has been doing it for 40 years and has worked on over 300 cases. They keep asking her to help. Is she really psychic, yes, and so are many other folk. Skeptics can believe what they will, there is a spiritual realm, there is a God. I know personally, so do millions of other people. [/QUOTE] Please say you’re joking. Especially about Noreen Renier. _Please._ ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/18 "2008-01-04T14:46:34Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] We can _still_ say “put up”, because now they don’t have the “I’m not allowed to use my gift for monetary gain(nevermind the outrageous fees I charge)” excuse any more. [/QUOTE] nevermind the outrageous fees, and my book is not expensive, ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/19 "2008-01-04T14:47:36Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] Please say you’re joking. Especially about Noreen Renier. _Please._ [/QUOTE] Please run uphill, water, please! ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/20 "2008-01-04T14:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I know that Randi has refused to have the process video taped and made public. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure there’s been at least two instances where the process has been filmed (or at least the premilinary test has been). One for dowsing a good few years back and the more recent Homeopathy one. I think there’s another one that’s yet to be shown. > [@](#): > > He is now going to withdraw it, seems appropriate sense psychics don’t take it as a serious offer. Now, are there such a thing as psychics? Well most of the general public think so. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies think there are psychics and use them in solving crimes. As for “cold reading”, it has never been proven there is such a thing. No contests between real psychics and cold readers has ever been conducted that I know of. No research, no studies, just a lot of skeptical talk. I don’t want to get into yet another thread debating whether psychics exist or not. So I’ll restrict myself to a couple of questions. Could anyone make a ‘serious offer’ along the lines of the JREF challenge, what would like to see to make an offer serious. What could someone do so that you’d expect psychics to take such a test? > [@](#): > > Is she really psychic, yes, and so are many other folk. Hmmm, I’m guessing that since you’re already convinced, and you believe the FBI are convinced then you don’t think there’s any need for psychics to take a test. Instead of a test of a psychic perhaps we need a test to convince the skeptics that you’re right. Are you convinced that everyone out there claiming psychic powers in 100% genuine? Do the genuine ones have equal abilities? If not, what about some sort of test to certify the good ones? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263.md?page=2)