# James Randi calls time on the $1 million dollar prize ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263 "2008-01-04T12:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/221 "2008-01-08T05:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Hey, if you have a comment you’d like to make about Randi setting a withdrawal date, bring it. [/QUOTE] Nah, I’d stand out and look weird. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/222 "2008-01-08T12:54:31Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Yet it is based on my personal experience, so it is universally true, and you must therefore respect it. [/QUOTE] This is an excellent point that I hope **lekatt** deigns to address. My personal experience is also to marvel at the beauty, wonder, natural perfection and pure humanity of rational thought. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/223 "2008-01-08T13:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Closed-minded egotism says that the individual’s interpretation of their observations must be correct. Non-solipsistic reason says that other people’s interpretations of their observations are to be weighed in addition to the individual’s; though the individual’s own interpretation is more valued than the anecdotes of others, it remains reasonable to believe that in cases where the massive majority of other people’s interpretations agree to a repeatably high degree of detail, that the majority conclusion is likely the correct one, even if it does not agree with the individual’s own conclusion. (And if spiritual experiences agreed to a repeatably high degree of detail, there would only be one religion.) [/QUOTE] I agree that religions don’t agree, because they are base on literature like the Bible, not personal experience. While near death experiences do agree in format. There has been an estimated 12 millions NDEs in the US alone. Thousands and thousands of them have been published in books, the internet, and movies. There experiences are remarkably similar to each other and have provoked honest scientific studies of same. These studies showed the experiences are real (not delusions, dreams, or hallucinations) and they give evidence of life after death. Now, if skeptics were real scientists they would be reading everything about the experiences, instead of calling the experiencers dirty names. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/224 "2008-01-08T13:40:40Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Yet it is based on my personal experience, so it is universally true, and you must therefore respect it. [/QUOTE] One person’s personal experience does not establish a universal truth. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/225 "2008-01-08T13:43:08Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] One person’s personal experience does not establish a universal truth. [/QUOTE] How about two of us? ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/226 "2008-01-08T13:49:55Z")
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. They may think it’s an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/227 "2008-01-08T14:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] There has been an estimated 12 millions NDEs in the US alone. Thousands and thousands of them have been published in books, the internet, and movies. There experiences are remarkably similar to each other and have provoked honest scientific studies of same. These studies showed the experiences are real (not delusions, dreams, or hallucinations) and they give evidence of life after death. [/QUOTE] I hate to be “one of those” guys, but I have to do it… Cite? I am willing to read “about the experiences, instead of calling the experiencers dirty names”, but you gotta meet me halfway here by, you know, providing a reference. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/228 "2008-01-08T14:11:45Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] > [@Lekatt](#): > > One person’s personal experience does not establish a universal truth. How about two of us? [/QUOTE] > [@Lekatt](#): > > There has been an estimated 12 millions NDEs in the US alone. If each personal experience does not establish it, how can 12 million non-truths make one truth? Or is math a spiritual thing also? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/229 "2008-01-08T14:13:04Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] One person’s personal experience does not establish a universal truth. [/QUOTE] Sounds like you are calling for a replication of personal experience before bestowing validity upon it. Almost as if you were demanding some sort of systematic method of evaluating the nature and validity of claims. If only there was a word for such a system… ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/230 "2008-01-08T14:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=the PC apeman] And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. They may think it’s an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement. [/QUOTE] You can get anything you want At Lekatt’s Restaurant… ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/231 "2008-01-08T14:22:21Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] If each personal experience does not establish it, how can 12 million non-truths make one truth? Or is math a spiritual thing also? [/QUOTE] As far as you quoting my post above, your sarcasm detector must be broken… ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/232 "2008-01-08T15:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] I hate to be “one of those” guys, but I have to do it… Cite? I am willing to read “about the experiences, instead of calling the experiencers dirty names”, but you gotta meet me halfway here by, you know, providing a reference. [/QUOTE] I have provided cite many times, but don’t mind doing it again. This cite is very long, it covers many facets of the near death experience, I doubt anyone will read the whole thing. But at least read the main part. > **[Question 28 about Near Death Experiences.](https://aleroy.com/FAQz28.htm)** > > Question 28 about Near Death Experiences. No, I did not write this article. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/233 "2008-01-08T15:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] If each personal experience does not establish it, how can 12 million non-truths make one truth? Or is math a spiritual thing also? [/QUOTE] Well, it’s kinda like the twig thing. If you put 1-2-3 twigs together they are easy to break, but if you put 12 million twigs together they are impossible to break. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/234 "2008-01-08T16:05:59Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Well, it’s kinda like the twig thing. If you put 1-2-3 twigs together they are easy to break, but if you put 12 million twigs together they are impossible to break. [/QUOTE] Ah yes, but the flame of wisdom makes short work of your twigs. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/235 "2008-01-08T17:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I have provided cite many times, but don’t mind doing it again. This cite is very long, it covers many facets of the near death experience, I doubt anyone will read the whole thing. But at least read the main part. > **[Question 28 about Near Death Experiences.](https://aleroy.com/FAQz28.htm)** > > Question 28 about Near Death Experiences. No, I did not write this article. [/QUOTE] Thank you for this. I probably won’t have enough time to reply until tomorrow. I promise to read it with an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/236 "2008-01-08T17:40:44Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Ah yes, but the flame of wisdom makes short work of your twigs. [/QUOTE] Nothing is lost, only transformed into a purer form of truth. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/237 "2008-01-08T17:57:41Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Nothing is lost, only transformed into a purer form of truth. [/QUOTE] Cite? On a serious note I actually agree. Once we burn all your twigs of ignorance and meaningless superstition we will be well on our way to a purer form of truth (whatever that is…) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/238 "2008-01-08T17:58:58Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Nothing is lost, only transformed into a purer form of truth. [/QUOTE] Like yesterdays pot roast? ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/239 "2008-01-08T19:26:47Z")
lekatt I am also trying to keep an open mind here–but you do need to answer the questions people ask. You have not responded to this question asked by Bayard: “Question: how do you, lekatt, separate the fake psychics from the real ones? Presumably, you don’t believe everyone who claims to be a psychic. So, in your mind, there must be a way to separate the ones you feel are real from the fakes. How do you make that call? Please give examples of the real and fake psychics” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/240 "2008-01-08T19:34:02Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] Question: how do you, **lekatt** , separate the fake psychics from the real ones? Presumably, you don’t believe everyone who claims to be a psychic. So, in your mind, there must be a way to separate the ones you feel are real from the fakes. How do you make that call? Please give examples of the real and fake psychics. [/QUOTE] Last time he was willing to give an answer to this, the answer was that he _just knows_ and _gets a feeling_ from the person - iow, it takes one to know one. There is no end to that circle of logic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263.md?page=13)