# James Randi calls time on the $1 million dollar prize ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263 "2008-01-04T12:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/341 "2008-01-10T17:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] To others participating in this discussion-Working out the details of a test with **lekatt** is a complete waste of time. He claims that everyone is psychic, and that if a psychic fails a test, either the test was unfair or the psychic was having a bad day. He will not agree to take any test where the results are pass/fail. [/QUOTE] While _he_ didn’t agree to take it, he did agree up-thread that the 25 of 90 box test was valid. Which is clearly pass/fail. And not that hard to set up. While arguing with **lekatt** may be pointless he does bring up the same protests that others come up with. If we can overcome them then we might convince someone, even if it’s not him. One must set an example. I’d tell you not to go on reading but I expect you have to, being a mod an’ all. What if we promise to behave? Frankly I’m enjoying posting in this thread. And I’m still waiting for **Peter Morris** to show up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/342 "2008-01-10T17:21:23Z")
[QUOTE=photopat] All true, of course. It’s just so hard to let his statements go. After all, if a newbie or somebody on the cusp of being a true-believer reads the thread, shouldn’t **Lekatt’s** claims be challenged? But yeah, we’d have better luck debating with a clam. [/QUOTE] I fully support direct challenges to his many unsupported claims, but I want newbies to realize that they will be unable to convince him to change his ways. I want them to know that if they ask him for a cite to a scientific study, there’s a very good chance they will be directed to either a puff piece full of opinion and anonymous sources that can’t be checked or a positive woo review of a book on the subject, _if he bothers to give a cite at all_. Challenges are good for informing others, but he is totally impervious to any information he doesn’t already believe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/343 "2008-01-10T17:28:19Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] OK, the thread is becoming about me again instead of the OP. Will wait for awhile and see if it blows over. [/QUOTE] Translation: You wish to post without being challenged. My answer: Not going to happen. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/344 "2008-01-10T17:36:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I do not claim to be a psychic So, when you claimed that everyone is psychic, you were excluding yourself? [QUOTE=lekatt] OK, the thread is becoming about me again instead of the OP. Will wait for awhile and see if it blows over. [/QUOTE] How can we miss you if you don’t leave? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/345 "2008-01-10T17:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] So, when you claimed that everyone is psychic, you were excluding yourself? How can we miss you if you don’t leave? [/QUOTE] If you will just read my posts accurately, you will notice I said everyone is somewhat psychic. Please try to be honest, it saves time. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/346 "2008-01-10T18:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] If you will just read my posts accurately, you will notice I said everyone is somewhat psychic. Please try to be honest, it saves time. [/QUOTE] “everyone is somewhat psychic” = **everyone is psychic** though perhaps to different degrees. Therefore, you, as a part of everyone, are psychic. At least according to your claims. Including the claim that you were able to do a psychometric reading of a crystal. At least try to be consistent if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/347 "2008-01-10T18:10:52Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] If you will just read my posts accurately, you will notice I said everyone is somewhat psychic. Please try to be honest, it saves time. [/QUOTE] What does “somewhat psychic” mean? If a person is somewhat psychic, is she psychic, or not? ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/348 "2008-01-10T18:42:13Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I do not claim to be a psychic, Randi’s test does not have credibility among psychics, that is why no prominent psychic is interested in it. He is right to discard it. There have been some suggestions on testing here that would draw prominent psychics I believe. [/QUOTE] Actually you have claimed to possess some psychic ability, you are misrepresenting what you have posted here. A direct quote out of your post #324 “I know in my own experiences, that yes, some days nothing works. Weather also affects psychic ability.” This quote shows that you claim some sort of psychic ability. Even if it is a little-as the last poster stated, how can you have a little? Either you do or you don’t. So why don’t you go claim the money? Do you have cites that ALL prominent pyschics (is there truly such a thing?) have stated that Randi’s test has no credibility? I would imagine that most of them are stating nothing about the test at all, ignoring it in other words because they know they can’t and don’t have any ability. I told you I had an open mind. I still do, if you can provide some measuring stick to validate your position. Until then I remain unconvinced. You have continually skirted around the issues and questions posed to you, which is not the way to influence anyone to your line of reasoning. That you ‘just know’ is insufficient for such a bold claim and frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for using that argument on a board like the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/349 "2008-01-10T18:45:00Z")
My own somewhat-psychic powers became manifest the day I discovered I possessed an uncanny ability to predict the outcome of a flipped coin approximately _fifty percent_ of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/350 "2008-01-10T19:52:56Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] If you can remember right, I posted the link to Randi test rules myself. Now show me a link to an actual test. [/QUOTE] ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ytDq-4NIXCA/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/ytDq-4NIXCA?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/351 "2008-01-10T20:01:34Z")
The link I just posted is really a 4-parter. Here are all four parts, and it’s an actual test, done by the JREF rules and videotaped: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytDq-4NIXCA) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv-NPFRUV8E) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7yMc0rJUfU) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-2bjiMrx0) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/352 "2008-01-10T20:11:56Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] What does “somewhat psychic” mean? If a person is somewhat psychic, is she psychic, or not? [/QUOTE] I think, to some people, if a person passes a test, he/she is psychic. If not, he/she is not, or at least _not at that time._ If the chances of guessing something are 20% and the person being tested gives the right answer 20% of the time, to a scientist, that means only chance is at work. To **Lekatt,** it means they were 100% psychic 20% of the time. Example: what **Vinyl Turnip** said. I am unable to come up with a figure that might prove that a person was not psychic _all of the time_. A less than 20% result would indicate “psi-missing,” which is still considered paranormal, right? High, low, inbetween: there is absolutely no value which would prove the person was not psychic, ergo, everyone is psychic at least some of the time and no valid test is possible. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/353 "2008-01-10T20:54:34Z")
[QUOTE=Hakuna Matata] Actually you have claimed to possess some psychic ability, you are misrepresenting what you have posted here. A direct quote out of your post #324 “I know in my own experiences, that yes, some days nothing works. Weather also affects psychic ability.” This quote shows that you claim some sort of psychic ability. Even if it is a little-as the last poster stated, how can you have a little? Either you do or you don’t. So why don’t you go claim the money? Do you have cites that ALL prominent pyschics (is there truly such a thing?) have stated that Randi’s test has no credibility? I would imagine that most of them are stating nothing about the test at all, ignoring it in other words because they know they can’t and don’t have any ability. I told you I had an open mind. I still do, if you can provide some measuring stick to validate your position. Until then I remain unconvinced. You have continually skirted around the issues and questions posed to you, which is not the way to influence anyone to your line of reasoning. That you ‘just know’ is insufficient for such a bold claim and frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for using that argument on a board like the SDMB. [/QUOTE] Well, no I haven’t skirted around anything. Somewhat psychic means what it means. Some people can play chopsticks and nothing else on the piano, now does that make them a pianist, no. Everyone has some psychic ability, I have some psychic ability also. My psychic ability is a tad more than the average but not enough for me to claim I am a psychic. I know you guys are not really misunderstanding, you are only fishing for something to find fault. It’s ok, your loss, not mine. So I will leave you to find something wrong with this post. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/354 "2008-01-10T21:10:31Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Well, no I haven’t skirted around anything. [/quote] Perhaps you think you haven’t, but that’s not how it appears from your posts. > [@](#): > > Somewhat psychic means what it means. Correct. It means psychic to an extent. Therefore, psychic. > [@](#): > > Some people can play chopsticks and nothing else on the piano, now does that make them a pianist, no. Accepted. > [@](#): > > Everyone has some psychic ability, Unproven and based on all available evidence, unlikely. > [@](#): > > I have some psychic ability also. See above. > [@](#): > > My psychic ability is a tad more than the average but not enough for me to claim I am a psychic. Again, unproven, however if you have psychic ability, you are a psychic. Possibly not a strong one, but nevertheless. A person who can swim is a swimmer. They don’t have to be Olympic level to qualify for the term. > [@](#): > > I know you guys are not really misunderstanding, you are only fishing for something to find fault. It’s ok, your loss, not mine. So I will leave you to find something wrong with this post. Okay, done. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/355 "2008-01-10T21:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Well, no I haven’t skirted around anything. Somewhat psychic means what it means. Some people can play chopsticks and nothing else on the piano, now does that make them a pianist, no. Everyone has some psychic ability, I have some psychic ability also. My psychic ability is a tad more than the average but not enough for me to claim I am a psychic. I know you guys are not really misunderstanding, you are only fishing for something to find fault. It’s ok, your loss, not mine. So I will leave you to find something wrong with this post. [/QUOTE] What’s wrong with the post is that it’s nonsense. How can someone be psychic some of the time? What changes occur to steal this power from them? And to state that someone who has psychic abilities is not _a psychic_, absent a coherent working definition of “psychic,” is dissembling at best. Why don’t you provide us with one, so we can parse your meaning? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/356 "2008-01-10T21:26:48Z")
I watched the test of Rosemary and have some comments. I have never seen or heard of anyone being able to influence the mind of another to the extent of causing urination. Never. But the best defense methods against it was taken, urinating just before the test and keeping the mind busy with other tasks. I have older cats and need to take them to the vet for tests. In order to get urine to test the Vet squeezes the bladder and if that doesn’t work they use a needle to withdraw the urine. However, if the cat has urinated before coming to the Vet there is simply no urine for them to extract. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/357 "2008-01-10T21:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Well, no I haven’t skirted around anything. Somewhat psychic means what it means. Some people can play chopsticks and nothing else on the piano, now does that make them a pianist, no. Everyone has some psychic ability, I have some psychic ability also. My psychic ability is a tad more than the average but not enough for me to claim I am a psychic. I know you guys are not really misunderstanding, you are only fishing for something to find fault. It’s ok, your loss, not mine. So I will leave you to find something wrong with this post. [/QUOTE] In communication, the goal is to make and prove your point. I haven’t lost anything, but you have since you have failed to make a convincing argument. Is being a tad pyschic like being a tad pregnant? Either you are or you are not. I saw a tv show last night about a boy who was blind, but who could ‘see’. He didn’t have eyes (they were lost due to cancer treatment). Now one could make up some mystical/spiritual reason why he ‘saw’–but there is a very scientific based reason. He ‘saw’, but only in the figurative sense that he could walk around, skateboard, play basketball, hell he even played video games—really quite an amazing story. But he ‘saw’ because he honed his hearing and used a clicking sound he developed with his tongue–thus allowing him to ‘see’ similar to sonar. So he could see something before he ran into it. But he couldn’t see like you and I see. If someone claims to have psychic ability they are claiming the ability to ‘see’ into another world. This begs two questions. One does this other world even exist–how can you prove that, I submit that you can’t, and thus we need to set aside that question. The second question is ‘how’ does this person who sees into this world do this. He either can’t, which is the most likely scenario and he is a fraud. Or he can and if he can then he should be able to do this on a very consisent basis. If he can’t produce results that are more then random events, this would indictate he is perpetuating a fraud. If he (read:you) can produce some consistent evidence that someone has this ability (again read as: not because ‘I know’) then I will keep an open mind and look cleanly at the result. Until that time I think you have both some emotional and spiritual maturity to do if you want to convey your message to the general population of this board. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/358 "2008-01-10T21:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I watched the test of Rosemary and have some comments. I have never seen or heard of anyone being able to influence the mind of another to the extent of causing urination. Never. But the best defense methods against it was taken, urinating just before the test and keeping the mind busy with other tasks. I have older cats and need to take them to the vet for tests. In order to get urine to test the Vet squeezes the bladder and if that doesn’t work they use a needle to withdraw the urine. However, if the cat has urinated before coming to the Vet there is simply no urine for them to extract. [/QUOTE] She agreed to the test. She was involved in _designing_ the test. She failed the test. 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/359 "2008-01-10T21:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] What’s wrong with the post is that it’s nonsense. How can someone be psychic some of the time? What changes occur to steal this power from them? And to state that someone who has psychic abilities is not _a psychic_, absent a coherent working definition of “psychic,” is dissembling at best. Why don’t you provide us with one, so we can parse your meaning? [/QUOTE] I suggest you read the post again. I do explain myself. There is no such thing as psychic power. Only those that don’t know use this word. As much as I like I can’t teach you what and how psychics do what they do on this board. Not to mention all the disparaging remarks I would receive in the process. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263/360 "2008-01-10T21:45:58Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] She agreed to the test. She was involved in _designing_ the test. She failed the test. 'Nuff said. [/QUOTE] Yes, I felt compassion for her. She was in over her head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-randi-calls-time-on-the-1-million-dollar-prize/432263.md?page=19)