I agree, but it may be where some people gained the impression, is all.
What magazine are you talking about? As for the rest, here are the rules for the Challenge.
Here are the rules.
The pertinent part :
Applicant will declare agreement by signing this form where indicated before a notary public and returning the form to the James Randi Educational Foundation. Applicant must state clearly what is being claimed as the special ability upon which they wish to be tested, and test protocols must be agreed upon by both parties before any testing will take place. All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, so that no judging or voting process is required. We do not design the protocol independently of the applicant, who must provide clear guidelines so that the test(s) may be properly designed and carried out.
Applicant states what will happen, and both parties agree in advance what constitutes a pass.
I read an account of one such cruise, written by a journalist. He was not impressed. I’ll see if I can find it for you.
Would a magazine exposing quack doctors be considered hostile to doctors, or only to quack ones. That the set of psychics seem to be equivalent to the set of psychic frauds is not his fault. Some psychics may be unintentionally fraudulent, doing cold readings but convinced they’ve got something.
As for the rules, don’t you think it is reasonable to force the claimant to state exactly what they’re going to do, to see if the claimed result is significant? If I claim I can guess suits of a deck of cards correctly 25% of the time, that’s not much of a claim.
The protocol is what I am taking about. Randi and his people have control over it. The psychics options if they don’t like it are to try and convince Randi to change it or not go through with the test.
I think we are getting bogged down. My point is that psychics with a following don’t really have a lot to gain by submitting to Randi’s test. Not that Randi’s tests or something like it are a good way to showing psychic abilities.
That’s not true. They both have control. Are you suggesting that the JREF would deliberately demand an impossible protocol if they suspected a true psychic were on the scene?
They psychic is free to suggest a protocol. All the JREF is looking for is one that yields unambiguous results, and is free from trickery. Do you have any examples of such a protocol being rejected?
Really? I think they would be ideal. If a gang of hostile skeptics admit you have psychic powers, you’ve pretty much sealed the deal.
First, it’s “supposed psychics”, not “psychics”. Second, what do you think would be a good way to show real psychic abilities?
Well, let’s see,
In 1981, when Psychic Investigator Noreen Renier first lectured at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, her work with police detectives was considered controversial. Now, she is a well-known psychic detective who has worked on over 500 unsolved cases with city, county, and state Law Enforcement Agencies in 38 states and 6 foreign countries. She has a unique understanding of both the police and the paranormal.
You’d think if she was any good one or two of those five hundred would have been solved.
As for psychic testing, you set up a fair and equal test and the psychics will come.
Oh, there is no such thing as psychic power, being psychic is a gift, the abiliity to read, see, and hear subtle spiritual energies. Some are better than others, but nothing is perfect.
Science by choice ignores the existence of anything it can’t detect in some way. It is a materialistic belief system. It is far behind in the knowledge of the real world.
OK now you have gone to far.
That doesn’t make any sense. No one’s forcing either side to go through with a test, either Randi or the psychic could presumably withdraw if they dislike the terms, the test taker has just as much control as Randi does.
And it’s not like Randi has to bend over backwords to create a test thats unfair for him to make one that he will be certain an applicant will fail. Whether you believe in paranormal abilities or not, I don’t think there’s any question Randi doesn’t believe in them. So all he has to do to make a test that he’s sure a psychic will fail is to make one a normal person would fail. And if the psychic really thinks they have powers, all they need to do is agree to a test a normal person would fail but that thier powers will allow them to pass. It doesn’t seem like it would be that hard to find a mutually satisfactory proceedure for a test then.
Except that a lot of psychics do apparently want people to believe in their powers. If they really do want to convince people, passing Randi’s test would be a good way to do it, and with a million bucks extra to boot.
She has been featured on the TV show “Psychic Detectives” where many of her solved cases are shown.
If it cannot be detected how are we supposed to KNOW it isn’t a bunch of hooey you and your friends made up? Are we just supposed to take your word for it? Pass. The world is too full of liars and morons and lunatics for me to accept preposterous claims. Nothing personal. When come back bring proof.
These two statements seem contradictory. If a fair and equal test is possible, then science should be able to preform such a test. But then psychic powers are detectable, despite the fact that “Science by choice ignores the existence of anything it can’t detect”
Of course no TV show has ever pandered to idiots before…
I wouldn’t matter no skeptic is going to change their mind, they wouldn’t be a skeptic if they did. Actually nothing in this world matters save how you treat others.
Come on in, step up to take the psychic test. See just how good you really are.
I so get tired of saying this, but here I go once again-would you mind providing a cite that confirms a particular psychic’s ability that is NOT the psychic’s own website?
This is your site, right? I’m impressed by your exhaustive research, piling through scientific reports, eyewitness testimony and the like, in order to gain your extremely rigourous and valid Zener cards test.
Normally I might make some joke about how a misreading on one word in Zener card testing, perhaps even a word that comes up very often in Zener card testing (those tools named after the great Karl Zener), might suggest a rush job in doing such research - but alas, I cannot in this case (of Zener card research), as you have made no such simple mistakes.
Your instructions page (on the Zener cards test) says that the formula used is the same formula used in past Zener tests. I’d like to know what that formula is, please, and which tests it is taken from. I’d also like you to talk through the formula, explaining why it is that it is used and why each variable is as it is. For my education, of course, and I am sure since this is on your own site you understand exactly how your psychic test works. After all, to admit to having something on your site you do not understand, and the willingnes to put something on your site you know you do not understand, would make your entire site (and indeed your own integrity in this matter) into question.
See you do not understand skeptics. We change our minds all the time. As for your test I would put up a significant amount of money to see you do it 5,000 times and score better than average. If you can’t I wouldn’t even expect you to pay me anything.
I know, I know your spirit guide does not work that way…
I tell you what lekatt, tell me one thing, anything, verifiable that is going to happen tomorow (something that doesn’t happen everyday). Make it specific enough so it is clearly not a WAG. YOU CAN"T. But if you did I would be open to look into it further.