# James T. Kirk never courtmartialed for losing crew? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840 "2020-04-29T20:49:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/1 "2020-04-29T20:49:05Z")
With this quarantine business, I’ve been re-watching Star Trek’s Original Series, in order, and something stuck out to me; **James T. Kirk is going through a _lot_ of crewmembers**. How is it this guy was never court martialed by Starfleet for the loss of so many crew members? For arguments’ sake, the USS Enterprise, [NCC-1701](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701)), was envisioned with a certain quantity of souls on board: > [@](#): > > [sub] **From the aforementioned Wikipedia Link:** [/sub] > "_Roddenberry further specified that the Enterprise would operate mainly in space, have a crew of **100–150** , and be incredibly fast."_ If Kirk is losing one ‘redshirt’ per episode (on average), and there were 79 episodes in the Original Series by the end of [Season 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series_(season_3)); he’d be replacing half his crew due to attrition over the course of his 5-Year Mission. This does not even scratch the surface of how many Ensigns were lost (apparently Ensign being the required minimum rank to be on an Away Team), theoretically gutting the future Officer Corps of Starfleet. Even at a 52% attrition rate (79/150), this is an unacceptably high rate for any reconnaissance mission. So, how is it that Starfleet never seemed to notice Kirk was constantly, quietly replenishing his crew every visit to a Star Base? Wouldn’t have the Enterprise ever earned a reputation as being a death trap? How’d this guy seemingly escape scrutiny for the expenditure of crew members, simply for an “exploration” mission? Tripler Nerd at heart, Engineer at work (from home). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/2 "2020-04-29T20:53:50Z")
You are off by a factor of at least 3. NCC-1701 had a crew of 430. Still a rather high attrition rate though. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/3 "2020-04-29T21:02:03Z")
You are also off on your count. During the original series, the body count for crew was 25 red, 10 gold and 8 blue. Far below your estimate of 79. Since the red shirts number 239 at the start, they lose around 10%. But the death rate for gold shirts is 18%! Blue is the safest with less than 6%. See the Tech Manual for data. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/4 "2020-04-29T21:08:21Z")
It seems quite apparent (certainly from _The Next Generation_ onward) that the ship’s computer is entirely capable of running the ship and performing complex navigation and analysis tasks with minimal input from the ‘crew’, and even from the original series movies Scotty is able to rig the ship to function with only a navigator and pilot, so we can infer that a high degree of automation is possible. We may thus assume that the _USS Enterprise_ is capable of performing its exploration and survey mission with minimal crew, and thus its large crew complement serves some other purpose. It follows that the ship is crewed not with Earth’s best and brightest but instead with malcontents and social rejects that do not fit into the utopian human society and are shipped out to the stars to be rid of them. However, building ships is an expensive proposition so decimating the crew on a periodic basis through dangerous away missions and other conflicts assures that Starfleet has adequate capacity to take on new rejects. In light of this revelation, the attrition rate of the _Enterprise_ under James Kirk was not undesired but instead laudable and awarded with promotion so that he could use his talents to send even larger numbers of red-shirted junior officers to their demise. “Sheer fucking hubris!” indeed. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/5 "2020-04-29T21:12:57Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > If Kirk is losing one ‘redshirt’ per episode (on average), and there were 79 episodes in the Original Series by the end of [Season 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series_(season_3)); he’d be replacing half his crew due to attrition over the course of his 5-Year Mission. This does not even scratch the surface of how many Ensigns were lost (apparently Ensign being the required minimum rank to be on an Away Team), theoretically gutting the future Officer Corps of Starfleet. Even at a 52% attrition rate (79/150), this is an unacceptably high rate for any reconnaissance mission. According to [Memory Alpha,](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_casualties_%2823rd_century%29) 53 crew members were killed during the original series. In addition, four crew members (including McCoy, Scottie, and Chekov) were killed at some point but were revived, and two were apparently killed but mysteriously reappeared, like Kenny in South Park, in later episodes none the worse for wear. If we just count the crew who were “all-dead,” or 53, that’s 12% in 3 or 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/6 "2020-04-29T21:14:12Z")
He _was_ court-martialed for losing crew in the first-season episode titled, of all things, “Court Martial”. Kirk had to account for his actions that led to the death of a crew member. There was a twist, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/7 "2020-04-29T21:15:22Z")
So a 12% death rate on the whole over 3 years. I’m not sure what the comparable rate is for US or Uk exploratory expeditions, during (say) the 18th or 19th century, but losses of entire ships were not unknown. In the late 20th century the Navy death rate per year (US) was approximately 1% ([https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-103/pdfs/96-103.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-103/pdfs/96-103.pdf)) and exploration has to be more dangerous than operations post-Cold War and before 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/8 "2020-04-29T21:16:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > He _was_ court-martialed for losing crew in the first-season episode titled, of all things, “Court Martial”. Kirk had to account for his actions that led to the death of a crew member. > There was a twist, of course. Though that was an accusation of (essentially) murder. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/9 "2020-04-29T21:19:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > During the original series, the body count for crew was 25 red, 10 gold and 8 blue. Some crew were killed off-screen, and we don’t know their shirt colors. But your general point holds, that redshirts were actually underrepresented considering their percentage of the crew. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/10 "2020-04-29T21:20:11Z")
Considering how many Federation starships were lost with all hands, The Enterprise was actually doing pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/11 "2020-04-29T21:22:58Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Though that was an accusation of (essentially) murder. Well, I guess we can conclude that deaths in the line-of-duty are considered no big deal, then. Probably the single biggest “you fucked up big-time” crewman death that I think we can blame Kirk for is that of Midshipman First Class Peter Preston in _Star Trek II: TWOK_, especially after Saavik cited the relevant regulation that the _Enterprise_ should have had its shields up, and Kirk acknowledged his error soon after, saying she should keep reminding him of regulations in future. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/12 "2020-04-29T21:23:07Z")
Kirk was court-martialed, for a crew death. He was cleared. > **[Court Martial (Star Trek: The Original Series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Martial_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series))** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > "Court Martial" is the twentieth episode of the first season of the American science fiction television series Star Trek. It was written by Don M. Mankiewicz and Steven W. Carabatsos, directed by Marc Daniels, and first aired on February 2, 1967. > In the episode, Captain Kirk stands trial on charges of criminal negligence after jettisoning an occupied research pod during an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/13 "2020-04-29T21:24:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Some crew were killed off-screen, and we don’t know their shirt colors. But your general point holds, that redshirts were actually underrepresented considering their percentage of the crew. I also believe that if you check, most of the blue shirt deaths are people on TDY (ie guest stars). Blue crew permanently assigned to the Enterprise were quite safe. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/14 "2020-04-29T21:32:25Z")
It’s stated in _ **The Making of Star Trek** _ (Whitfield and Roddenberry, 1968) that the size of the crew complement was necessary in part because personnel could occasionally be left behind on a planet to perform surveys, liason with the native populations, conduct research, and so on. The \*Enterprise \*had to be able to sustain such tempoarry losses of personnel and keep operating. Also, Spock states in “By Any Other Name” that automated systems require period monitoring and adjustment, meaning that the ship could not operate on its own indefinitely. In “The Apple,” he also says no one has ever claimed serving in Starfleet is particularly safe. Losses are expected, and the high risk is accepted by everyone who voluntarily signs up. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/15 "2020-04-29T21:36:08Z")
In other words: _“If you can’t take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home, and crawl under your bed. It’s not safe out here! It’s wondrous…with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it’s not for the timid.”_ - **Q** ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/16 "2020-04-29T21:36:57Z")
Also, it’s said in _ **TMoST** _ that for the ship to do what it does, it has to carry specialists in every branch of science. Further justification for the large crew complement. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/17 "2020-04-29T21:37:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I guess we can conclude that deaths in the line-of-duty are considered no big deal, then. > > Probably the single biggest “you fucked up big-time” crewman death that I think we can blame Kirk for is that of Midshipman First Class Peter Preston in _Star Trek II: TWOK_, especially after Saavik cited the relevant regulation that the _Enterprise_ should have had its shields up, and Kirk acknowledged his error soon after, saying she should keep reminding him of regulations in future. I don’t know how Kirk sleeps at night over that one. And Scotty. What was he thinking bringing that poor kid to the bridge, instead of to sickbay? Personally, I think the whale-ship attack in Star Trek IV was a false flag operation, instigated by Kirk or his cronies back home, to provide a mechanism for him to escape the inevitable charges of mutiny, mass-murder, and hazarding a vessel, among others, and get off with just a slap in the wrist instead. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/18 "2020-04-29T21:44:43Z")
Ensign was the lowest rank on board, at least initially. Non-commissioned officers later showed up, but mostly even the most junior crew members are officers. In any case, the “exploration” aspect of the mission means occasional loss of crew is to be expected. It’s more like Magellan or Cook than a contemporary naval sailing. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/19 "2020-04-29T21:46:49Z")
Kirk was Teflon. And he practiced “Cowboy Diplomacy.” ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840/20 "2020-04-29T22:20:24Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Ensign was the lowest rank on board, at least initially. Non-commissioned officers later showed up, but mostly even the most junior crew members are officers. Everyone on board was a qualified astronaut and hence an officer, at least at the start. But there were still “crewmen” and “technicians” of different grades around even in the earliest episodes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-t-kirk-never-courtmartialed-for-losing-crew/852840.md?page=2)