# James Taylor was not cool??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590 "2012-06-09T04:28:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/1 "2012-06-09T04:28:19Z")
I’m reading a novel that takes place circa 1980. The main characters are 30-something educated suburban women, so they would’ve been in college in the late ‘60s or early ‘70s. The author seems to have a fixation with James Taylor and particularly with the idea that he was “not cool”. One thing the women characters bond over is that they love “Carolina in My Mind”, although they are embarrassed to admit it since otherwise James Taylor is so “not cool”. Seriously, James Taylor was not cool??? Has anyone here been exposed to that attitude in real life, or maybe even feel that way? ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/2 "2012-06-09T05:33:03Z")
Read Lester Bangs in _James Taylor Marked For Death_: “Matter of fact, if I ever get down to Carolina I’m gonna try to figure out a way to off James Taylor. Hate to come on like a Nazi, but if I hear one more Jesus-walking-the-boys-and-girls-down-a-Carolina-path-while-the-dilemma-of-existence-crashes-like-a-slab-of-hod-on-J.T.’s-shoulders song, I will drop everything (I got nothin’ to do here in California but drink beer and watch TV anyway) and hop the first Greyhound to Carolina for the signal satisfaction of breaking off a bottle of Ripple (he deserves no better, and I wish I could think of worse, but they’re all local brands) and twisting it into James Taylor’s guts until he expires in a spasm of adenoidal poesy.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/3 "2012-06-09T05:39:24Z")
Not anywhere close to cool. It took the rise of John Denver to get a popular singer aimed at the younger set who was even less cool. None of the Taylors were cool except Alex and that was because he was the one who didn’t sound like James. (looking at Wikipedia to make sure I have them all straight) And who the hell was Hugh and why did nobody throw a record contract at him? I will admit that I am surprised the women in that book were embarrassed for liking him as his fanbase was almost entirely women. At a “half the population of the country were fans” level. I’m curious, and I will admit that I own “Sweet Baby James” (What? The guitarwork on “Steamroller Blues” is good.), but whatever made you think that James Taylor was ever cool? The very concept is mindboggling. Lester Bangs, OTOH, was cool, both in print and for giving 45 minutes of a Sunday evening so a young J student could interview him. Got my best grade in college for it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/4 "2012-06-09T05:48:18Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > Seriously, James Taylor was not cool??? > > Has anyone here been exposed to that attitude in real life, or maybe even feel that way? James Taylor is not (and never has been) cool. Ever. Even boinking Carly Simon didn’t make James Taylor cool. There continues to be much speculation that he may be some kind of bizarre mutant life form that repels cool or simply cannot absorb cool. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/5 "2012-06-09T06:05:09Z")
James Taylor has always struck me as a whiny gint at best. Reading about how he left Carly makes him sound like a [Supreme Dick](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dad_Loves_His_Work) (second paragraph.) Cool? Maybe among 50-year old loser boozer types working on their third marriage, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/6 "2012-06-09T06:14:35Z")
Gotta agree. The Stones were cool. Hendrix was cool. JT was a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/7 "2012-06-09T06:44:43Z")
JT was the very embodiment of the solo singer-songwriter soft rock trend that really took off around 1971. A lot of rock fans of the time, like me, didn’t care for his music. Purely in that sense he wasn’t “cool” as far as I was concerned. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/8 "2012-06-09T06:46:19Z")
I’ve liked a couple of his songs. “Fire and Rain.” “How Sweet It Is (To Be loved By You).” That’s about it. I don’t think he’s cool. As Zaphod Beeblebrox would put it, he’s so unhip, I’m surprised his bum doesn’t fall off. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/9 "2012-06-09T07:54:34Z")
JT was the heartthrob of the Ivy League sorority girls and the boy-men who loved them. To everyone else he was the progenitor of a sickeningly cloying movement coming out of California in the early Seventies. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/10 "2012-06-09T07:59:31Z")
One of my favorite albums is _Sweet Baby James_. And now I find out James Taylor isn’t cool? 30 years of adoration wasted! I guess I’ll have to reshuffle my priorities. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/11 "2012-06-09T11:08:27Z")
He’s the guy I always wanted to do the John-Belushi-in-Animal-House-guitar-smashing thing to. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/12 "2012-06-09T14:25:33Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > JT was the very embodiment of the solo singer-songwriter soft rock trend that really took off around 1971. A lot of rock fans of the time, like me, didn’t care for his music. Purely in that sense he wasn’t “cool” as far as I was concerned. As I’ve heard it explained, his music was part of a reaction to the increasing orchestration, glam, and theatricality that rock was embracing at the time, instead going stripped-down and highly personal. Analogous to – seriously – the rise of punk. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/13 "2012-06-09T14:57:16Z")
he wasn’t cool he was mellow. he’s so mellow that zzzz… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/14 "2012-06-09T15:00:21Z")
I liked a few of his tunes, but he was the antithesis of cool. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/15 "2012-06-09T15:10:46Z")
I don’t have any of his albums and I’ve never been to one of his concerts, but I like JT. (I’m also not a boozer and not on my third marriage, or even my second.) My theory is that each of us decides what is cool based on what we like and to hell with anyone else’s opinion. So for me, JT is cool. And if you don’t agree, see above. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/16 "2012-06-09T15:27:39Z")
I kept reading the title as ‘James **Dean** was not cool??’ and um…yeah. Now I want a James Dean/James Taylor Celebrity wrestling match. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/17 "2012-06-09T15:38:33Z")
As part of Lester Bangs scathing critique has already been posted, I’ll offer one from another patriarch of rock criticism, Robert Christgau: **[Full article here](http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bk-aow/taylor.php)** > [@](#): > > There are rock stars who pretend that every electronic squawk is the word of God made manifest among us, and rock stars who can’t remember their sound man’s name when they want to bum a cigarette off him. Understandably, Taylor and his audience react to such pretension and egomania. They are intelligent and liberal and good. They work for McGovern. > > Essentially, though, Taylor is leading a retreat, and the reason us rock and rollers are so mad at him is simply that the retreat has been so successful. We assume that there is something anarchic in all of us, something dangerous and wonderful that demands response, not retreat. In some semiconscious was Taylor must understand this. He has written a brilliant parody of the macho white-blues fantasy, at once so attractive and so repellent, called “Steamroller.” It is significant that he and his band and his audience could find no other climax to the concert. There was sweet baby James, singing rock and roll as if he meant it: “I’m a napalm bomb, guaranteed to blow your mind.” > > Another line of Taylor’s interests me in this context: “I’m sure enough fond of my rock 'n roll.” Me, I’m a lover, not a fonder. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/18 "2012-06-09T15:39:58Z")
I never thought he was cool but I saw him live at a Texas guitar concert doing Steamroller - that was cool. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/19 "2012-06-09T16:00:26Z")
I, who started this thread, was not actually wondering whether JT was “cool”, but whether he was widely considered “not cool”. Does that make sense? I’m stunned – not at the JT hate, but by the fact that I wasn’t aware of it when I’m such a judgmental music snob. Nunzio Tavulari noted that “JT was the heartthrob of the Ivy League sorority girls and the boy-men who loved them”. This exactly describes the women in the book I mentioned. The author is attempting to make the characters cool (they’re not) by playing up how aware they are of JT’s uncoolness (except for some reason _Carolina in My Mind_). So, for those who lack an appreciation of JT, is there something special about _Carolina in My Mind_? ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/20 "2012-06-09T16:49:57Z")
It’s funny, I know a lot of music snobs from my generation (I’m in my mid 20s) who like James Taylor and John Denver. I like them myself, and my mom says I’m cool… Of course what’s cool is going to vary by social group. Some people think country music is the height of cool, some people think it’s the lamest thing there is. The exact same thing could be said for heavy metal or gangster rap. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590.md?page=2)