# James Taylor was not cool??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590 "2012-06-09T04:28:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/41 "2012-06-09T18:52:46Z")
Other than “Fire and Rain” his oeuvre is crap. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/42 "2012-06-09T18:59:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > They influenced styles and fashions beyond the typical rock star “sphere of influence” of teenagers and rock musicians - just look at the development of my Dad’s hair from 1964 to 1970 and you’ll see the Beatles influence, just as looking at my Dad’s martini showed Sinatra’s influence. I don’t argue they were influential, or with-it (they _were_ it), or popular. Incredibly so on all counts. I just don’t see how they were _cool._ Cool implies emotional remoteness. It need not be real, but it had better be effortless and convincing. Cool implies manliness. Manliness in turn implies being at least somewhat conformist and of one’s time. Cool implies a sexuality that does not need to express itself, because it embodies itself. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/43 "2012-06-09T19:35:13Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > We might be. What, if anything, did the Fab Four have in common with Sinatra? with Mick Jagger? with Connery’s Bond? with Steve McQueen? They were brash talkers and had fab style. They were kicking parent-friendly Frankie & Annette to the side and rocking out. The Beatles were cool in 1964. Beyond that I’ll leave open to discussion. For me, Lennon was always cool. _Fire & Rain_ is a tolerable song. I don’t enjoy his other songs. _Handyman_ and _Mockingbird_ alone should have exiled James Taylor to the status of England Dan & John Ford Coley. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/44 "2012-06-09T19:40:22Z")
62 year old boomer here. I’ve never been able to understand the appeal of JT. Can’t stand him. . ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/45 "2012-06-09T19:41:30Z")
I’ve always liked a variety of music–but also knew that some artists were “cooler” than others. Sure liked the early James Taylor LP’s–but Townes van Zandt & his pals were the locally hip singer/songwriters. In “Band Candy” the adults in Sunnydale regressed to adolescence, causing bewilderment among Buffy & her pals. Buffy’s Mom listened to records at Giles’ place. In his “Ripper” persona, he tripped out to “Tales of Brave Ulysses”–& she volunteered that she liked Seals & Croft. Bad move–even with my weakness for folk rock, country rock & sweet tunes, I knew _they_ sucked. Definitely uncool! (Giles had Velvet Underground in his record collection–which impressed Cool Oz. Alas, Oz’s band seemed more intent on appearing cool than learning how to play music.) I saw the Uncool Stray Cats do a kick-ass show but my favorite of the neo-rockabilly genre was definitely The Cool Blasters. Or maybe The Cool Cramps. Is it OK to have a record collection that includes James Taylor & Jackson Brown & The Incredible String Band if it also includes The Fugs, The Red Krayola & the 13th Floor Elevators? How much cool credit did I earn from seeing Sun Ra & his Arkestra–& loving them? What’s the coolness quotient for John Dowland, Carlos Gardel, or The Holy Modal Rounders? In short (well, it’s too late to be short), I don’t worry about the coolness of what I like. But I visited Houston’s Emo’s a few years ago–daytime at a true Den of Hipness. All eyes turned on me as I approached the jukebox. After selecting “Don’t Slander Me” from the Roky Erickson tribute album & a few Social Distortion numbers, it appeared I’d passed the test. So I don’t mind playing The Cool Game at times… ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/46 "2012-06-09T19:44:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I like JT, but he (and John Denver, and Gordon Lightfoot, etc) certainly aren’t cool. Their whole point is that their songs are _earnest_, and earnest is the anti-thesis of cool. I don’t think Gordon Lightfoot is uncool. He wrote a song anout Cathy Smith (_Sundown_), a woman he had been living with, who later gave John Belushi his toxic speedball. And _The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald_ is nothing short of epic. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/47 "2012-06-09T19:54:10Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > JT was the very embodiment of the solo singer-songwriter soft rock trend that really took off around 1971. A lot of rock fans of the time, like me, didn’t care for his music. Purely in that sense he wasn’t “cool” as far as I was concerned. ETA, now that I am actually at my computer: Music fans around my age pretty much came to musical awareness as various directions of exploratory rock and R&B were exploding on the scene. The influence of the British Invasion was so overwhelming that, even on the AM dial, you could hear mostly rock and roll if you found the right station. That music wouldn’t be the most exploratory side of rock and roll, but it was still rock and it was good. If it wasn’t rock it was soul or R&B and that, too, was good. Then, when the introspective singer songwriters came, it was they who set the pace for just about all popular music other than R&B. This was when rock and roll disappeared from the AM dial; and if you were driving your car, which in those days generally only had an AM radio, you were high and dry. I remember switching back to the all-news channel because I didn’t want to hear yet another acoustic soft rock ballad where the percussionist taps a wooden block on every second and fourth beat–because that was all the producer would let him do. I do like some of the songs by JT and others of that sort; he was probably the best of them. But there was nothing about the style of music that really grabbed me in a positive way. I doubt that anyone, anywhere in the history of the world, has ever been listening to the radio, heard a James Taylor or Carly Simon or Gordon Lightfoot song come on and say, “woohoo, turn it UP!”. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/48 "2012-06-09T19:54:27Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > He’s the guy I always wanted to do the John-Belushi-in-Animal-House-guitar-smashing thing to. Interestingly, he sang at Belushi’s funeral. So if it helps you, imagine zombie John Belushi rising from his casket to smash JT’s guitar. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/49 "2012-06-09T20:15:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Beatles were the essence of cool in 63 Britain and 64-67 US/UK. To argue otherwise implies that we’re talking about different definitions of “cool”… or something. 😉 ::Suppressed snicker:: Hey I like the Beatles just fine, but if your audience consists of screaming teenage girls, you are not the “cool” band. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/50 "2012-06-09T20:18:13Z")
My wife played her James Taylor CDs while giving birth to our son. She says they calmed her down. Take that as you will. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/51 "2012-06-09T20:25:23Z")
Like other dopers here, I came of age in the 70s, no one in my peer group thought James Taylor was cool. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/52 "2012-06-09T20:44:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Bob Dylan. You need to listen to Dylan. James Taylor is talented and troubled but not cool. The Beatles were cool because their music was unquestionably superior. I remember reading that Jagger sneeringly described them as provincial. But when The Beatles dropped a record, the Stones took a backseat, period. If that ain’t cool then I don’t understand the definition. And Jimi singing The Wind Cried Mary is earnestly cool. I buy Bono / U2 as earnestly cool when they get it right - Sunday Bloody Sunday being a prime example, or Pride. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/53 "2012-06-09T21:08:08Z")
Ray Charles was both earnest and cool. So were James Brown, Aretha and all the other soul greats. In fact, I’d say that 1960’s soul is where earnestness and cool intersected. ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/54 "2012-06-09T23:15:19Z")
Two friends of mine once excused themselves from our group in order to make it to a “JT” concert. The rest of us said that was cool, but we didn’t know James Taylor was in the area, or we’d have bought tickets too. When they shuffled their feet and admitted that “JT” was Justin Timberlake, we let them have it. So to us at the time, James Taylor was cooler than Justin Timberlake. I’ve got nothing against Mr. Timberlake now, who I think is a cool and hard working guy. ---
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/55 "2012-06-09T23:38:10Z")
I like James Taylor’s music. But cool? Nah. Lots of good music isn’t “cool”, though. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/56 "2012-06-09T23:50:58Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > But when The Beatles dropped a record, the Stones took a backseat, period. If that ain’t cool then I don’t understand the definition. No offense, but if you think topping the pop charts defines cool, you might not understand the definition. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/57 "2012-06-10T00:22:47Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I buy Bono / U2 as earnestly cool when they get it right - Sunday Bloody Sunday being a prime example, or Pride. I feel like Bono tries too hard. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/58 "2012-06-10T00:27:45Z")
Good-looking guy, sang for a living (successfully!), every woman in the free world under 40 wanted to have unprotected sex with him. Married a smoking-hot heiress with her own substantial fan base. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that’s kinda cool. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/59 "2012-06-10T00:31:26Z")
If you are strumming your guitar around the campfire and you bust out a JT song…everybody’s gonna sing along. That’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590/60 "2012-06-10T00:39:19Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > No offense, but if you think topping the pop charts defines cool, you might not understand the definition. You misunderstand: I wasnt referring to the charts. I was referring to credibility amongst their peers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/james-taylor-was-not-cool/624590.md?page=4)