# Jamie Oliver and chickens **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 20, 2008, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245 "2008-01-20T08:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/21 "2008-01-20T15:51:57Z")
You find organic last longer? Since switching to organic we’ve had to throw out more eggs, milk, meat and especially vegetables than we ever have. Its changed how often I grocery shop - which, since to get most of my organic its a 6 mile drive to the coop, means the ecofriendlyness of organic over non may be washed out by the drive. The taste is worth it (which is why we do it, it certainly isn’t because I think chickens need little chicken playgrounds and regular recess for a happy life), but I can’ argue that it isn’t expensive or that it isn’t wasteful. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/22 "2008-01-20T15:59:34Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Have you seen what they fertilize spinach with? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Well whatever it is Popeye found it OK 😛 **Sprockets** They don’t clip the beaks or wings of the battery hens either ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/23 "2008-01-20T16:13:24Z")
I found [The Omnivore’s Dilemma](http://www.michaelpollan.com/omnivore.php) to be one of the most significant books I’ve ever read about where food comes from, and the ethics of eating. You might want to browse through it, and your answer about the chicken might be found. Who was the poster in Britain who bought a chicken at the butcher shop that tasted nothing like the supermarket variety, and started a thread just to rave about chicken that tasted like chicken? I found that telling, too. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/24 "2008-01-20T16:22:33Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] No, I but I eat organic spinach. And whatever they fertilize it with, I’m sure they don’t pull its beak off and clip its wings and put it in a tiny cage where it can’t even turn around. I’m also sure it doesn’t suffer very much from being fertilized. [/QUOTE] But what does that have to do with being willing to put something in your mouth? Maybe a more complete quote would help: > [@](#): > > Even if you don’t care at all about the suffering of the chickens, HOW can you put that in your mouth? So what are you talking about? I assumed you meant that the conditions under which meat chickens are raised is gross, or unsanitary. If you didn’t mean that, and you set aside the cruelty concerns, then what are you talking about? **chowder** , let’s just put it this way: there have been several large scale recalls of spinach and other leafy vegetables in the US for e. coli contamination. E. coli. An intestinal bacterial. I don’t think spinach plants have intestines. The contamination occurred because the fertilizer sprayed on the plants was not properly composted or pasteurized. This is done with “organic” plants, too, so **Sprockets** ’ organic veg, while I’m sure it’s tastier, is not free of the risk of fecal contamination. In fact, organics are much, much more likely to test positive for fecal matter residue than “conventional” produce. [cite](http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200406/NAT20040614a.html) IOW: it’s poop. My point simply being that “would you put that in your _mouth_?” divorced from cruelty aspects just breaks down when you learn too much about any agricultural system. It’s a simple minded gross out tactic, not compelling argument. I buy organic/free range/massaged to orgasm food whenever I can, but it’s because it tastes better, no other reason. Good arguments can be made (and Pullet made some of them in that linked post) that organic free-range chickens actually suffer _more_, and more wasted animal life (that is, animal is killed and discarded instead of eaten) happens with that system then “conventional” chicken farming. If we want to switch to “sustainable agiculture”, we’re going to have to go back to 95% of people being farmers - it’s just not nearly as effective a method of food production as agribusiness. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/25 "2008-01-20T16:29:54Z")
For anyone who is on the side of Huge Fairly-Wittyname’s UK campaign, [this site](http://www.chickenout.tv/) (warning: annoying sound on the page) gives details of it, and has videos on the life of battery chickens. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/26 "2008-01-20T16:54:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] There are other options. That family you describe, having considered the issue, could decide to eat less meat rather than to eat chickens that have suffered. … Another option for your hypothetical family might have been to not have children if they couldn’t afford to feed them the right food. Of course I would never mention that if these people existed in real life. . . . [/QUOTE] Yes, there are other options, but the choice to continue eating the battery chickens is a valid one too. You have decided to eat what you deem to be more ethically sourced meats, and more power to you, but you yourself would still be criticised by vegetarians and vegans etc. Make whatever choices you want about your own life, but I don’t see where that qualifies you to look down on people who have decided differently. The family in chowder’s example CAN afford to feed their kids the right food. Battery hens are nutritous, they are not made of plastic. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/27 "2008-01-20T17:03:34Z")
I used to buy eggs from my neighbor who had some backyard, free range, love-thy-chicken-as-thyself type operation. She sold the overflow that her family didn’t eat to friends, etc. I could not tell any difference whatsoever from supermarket eggs, aside from the fact that they were a delightful blue color on the outside. (I guess there is some breed that lays the bluish eggs?). They all pretty much taste like eggs. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/28 "2008-01-20T17:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] It’s your choice to contribute to animal cruelty so that you can have a cheap tasty chicken. I wonder how you can eat the chickens Jamie is showing you when you’ve seen how they live. Even if you don’t care at all about the suffering of the chickens, HOW can you put that in your mouth? [/QUOTE] Do you think the free-range chickens volunteer for the slaughter? Perhaps the free-range farmers only kill the ones have already dictated suicide notes. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/29 "2008-01-20T17:10:46Z")
Look, I’ll be first to admit that I did find the conditions under which battery hens are raised for the table to be quite terrible. However, and as I stated earlier, when I’m eating chicken or any kind of meat the method of how and why they arrived at my dinner table never enters my head. Like most people I just tuck in and enjoy ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/30 "2008-01-20T17:12:16Z")
[QUOTE=Hello Again] I used to buy eggs from my neighbor who had some backyard, free range, love-thy-chicken-as-thyself type operation. She sold the overflow that her family didn’t eat to friends, etc. I could not tell any difference whatsoever from supermarket eggs, aside from the fact that they were a delightful blue color on the outside. (I guess there is some breed that lays the bluish eggs?). They all pretty much taste like eggs. _shrug_ [/QUOTE] Blue hens eggs?. You sure they were’nt ducks ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/31 "2008-01-20T17:22:51Z")
Probably [Araucana chickens](http://www.araucanas.co.uk/). **Hello Again** , do you use butter when you cook your eggs? The thing I noticed about my first Happy Chicken Eggs\* were that they taste buttery all by themselves - richer and saltier than supermarket eggs. That effect might go unnoticed if you cook all your eggs in butter. Free range eggs at the supermarket, however, taste almost identical to regular eggs at the supermarket. I suspect that it’s either a freshness thing, a feed thing or the Free range/no antibotic/cage free chickens are not bred or raised significantly different than conventional chickens - not enough to change the flavor of their eggs, anyhow. \*From a small farmer I know personally with old fashioned chickens roaming the yard type practices. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/32 "2008-01-20T17:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Blue hens eggs?. You sure they were’nt ducks [/QUOTE] [Old Cotswold Legbar](http://www.clarencecourt.co.uk/legbar.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/33 "2008-01-20T17:31:44Z")
When I was a kid we could only afford to have a chicken at Christmas,posher families had them for their Sunday Roast. Its all very well having high moral standards about animals,I love animals myself but I’m not sentimental about them,but people forget so easily. Yes it would be very nice if chickens could be raised in the same conditions as pets and then eaten,but for poorer people this would mean that they probably would never get the chance to eat chicken at all. No doubt vegatarians would be quite happy with that but it wouldn’t be a good option for “financially challenged people” I am speaking from the the perspective of Brits brought up in post war U.K. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/34 "2008-01-20T18:11:44Z")
Well colour me stoopid? I honestly never knew hens laid blue eggs Like Lust4 Life I grew up in days when a roast chicken for Sunday lunch was a definite “I wish” ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/35 "2008-01-20T19:05:07Z")
**chowder** , there are two alternatives available for chicken. Both taste enough like chicken to fool most people, both are actually healthier (no salmonella risk, for starters) and both are cruelty-free. Both are priced in the range of ordinary chicken breasts. Check out [Quorn](http://www.quorn.co.uk/CMSPage.aspx), made from mushroom protein, and [Valess,](http://www.valess.com/)made from dairy protein. Valess may not yet be available outside of the Netherlands, though, but that is only a matter of time. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/36 "2008-01-20T19:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] If you didn’t mean that, and you set aside the cruelty concerns, then what are you talking about? [/QUOTE] There are so many aspects of this issue, and I was talking about several of them in different messages. I’m sorry you don’t understand. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > In fact, organics are much, much more likely to test positive for fecal matter residue than “conventional” produce. Really? What makes you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/37 "2008-01-20T19:40:57Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Do you think the free-range chickens volunteer for the slaughter? Perhaps the free-range farmers only kill the ones have already dictated suicide notes. [/QUOTE] I was referring to cruelty, not death. Or were you being humorous? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/38 "2008-01-20T19:47:19Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] However, and as I stated earlier, when I’m eating chicken or any kind of meat the method of how and why they arrived at my dinner table never enters my head. [/QUOTE] I find that quite disturbing. Do you have similar disregard for, say, the cleanliness of the kitchen? Few things are more fundamental than what we put into our mouths, and it’s a very sad state that it can be so normal to care so little about it. [QUOTE=Lust4Life] Yes it would be very nice if chickens could be raised in the same conditions as pets and then eaten,but for poorer people this would mean that they probably would never get the chance to eat chicken at all. [/QUOTE] What it is with the point that most people waste a lot of chicken that is so hard for people (not just you) to comprehend? [QUOTE=Maastricht] Check out [Quorn](http://www.quorn.co.uk/CMSPage.aspx) [/QUOTE] Now _that_ is cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/39 "2008-01-20T20:33:40Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Now _that_ is cruel. [/QUOTE] Quorn’s pretty good, actually. Even my very omnivorous husband thinks so. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245/40 "2008-01-20T20:46:53Z")
[QUOTE=Ferret Herder] Quorn’s pretty good, actually. Even my very omnivorous husband thinks so. [/QUOTE] No, I’m not working from assumptions here, I have indeed tried the ‘food’. Vile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamie-oliver-and-chickens/434245.md?page=3)