# JamieMcGarry - Wheel yourself on down here **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050 "2011-08-25T16:11:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/481 "2011-08-31T23:34:08Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I feel compelled to say one final thing as to why I feel I was discriminated against on the basis of my disability. For one, I don’t see how I ever used any equipment at HHFC in any manner inconsistent with use with which it was originally designed for. I was doing pullups on a _pull-up bar._ > > The fact that I was strapped to my wheelchair is really no different than other trainers strapping barbell-plate weights to their bodies in order to provide additional resistance to that of their body weight (which is exacty why I was strapped to my chair). I don’t see any difference in risk. Not to mention other, much more risky exercises, such as bench-pressing without a spotter, which _could_ result in death in an accident, that are allowed at HHFC without batting an eyelid. > > What is so spectacularly dangerous about _ **my** _ exercise that it must be banned? It my eye, it was because it was being _different_ and unusual, and unknown, rather than being _dangerous_, which got the exercise banned. Actually I am going to buy a used wheelchair for this very purpose. Not only will I get to add extra weight to my pull-ups, but when I drop I will be instantly _sitting down_, and I like sitting down. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/482 "2011-08-31T23:46:35Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What height were you at when you dropped from the machine to the ground? How close were other people? Had you crashed and burned, what were the chances that you would have injured others? Hey, what are the chances that he would’ve sued the gym? ---
**Author:** ![Bri2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/48db29/32.png) [@Bri2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bri2k)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/483 "2011-09-01T00:04:54Z")
I miss the Flipper McBabies. Bri2k ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/484 "2011-09-01T00:07:43Z")
> [@Bri2k](#): > > I miss the Flipper McBabies. > > Bri2k Don’t worry, I hear they’re on the 99c menu from October. ---
**Author:** ![Bri2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/48db29/32.png) [@Bri2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bri2k)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/485 "2011-09-01T00:12:35Z")
> [@BunnyTVS](#): > > Don’t worry, I hear they’re on the 99c menu from October. Can I get fries with that? Bri2k ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/486 "2011-09-01T00:27:54Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > The fact that I was strapped to my wheelchair is really no different than other trainers strapping barbell-plate weights to their bodies in order to provide additional resistance to that of their body weight (which is exacty why I was strapped to my chair). I don’t see any difference in risk. Not to mention other, much more risky exercises, such as bench-pressing without a spotter, which _could_ result in death in an accident, that are allowed at HHFC without batting an eyelid. > > What is so spectacularly dangerous about _ **my** _ exercise that it must be banned? It my eye, it was because it was being _different_ and unusual, and unknown, rather than being _dangerous_, which got the exercise banned. No, see, that’s the thing. It’s not banned because it was unusual, it was banned because it was dangerous. Those guys with weights strapped to them, they can hold the bar with their feet touching the ground. When they’re done they don’t have to drop 6 inches. You were off the ground with a set of wheels under you. Also, if you had hurt yourself, it would have been their insurance company paying for it. At my store, every time some old lady trips over her own stupid feet, it costs us an average of $30,000 (paid by our insurance) and our rates go up. Do you really not understand that pulling yourself and your wheelchair up off the ground might be a bit of a liability? Do you really think if you had been hurt you wouldn’t have said “Well since they never said I couldn’t do it, they clearly approved of it”? Think about what you said earlier WRT the letter you received from the DOJ (just to point out the mindset you were in): “If they thought my case had no realistic potential for having a sound legal basis then they would not have gone forward with this step.” Not only that, you’re _still_ trying to convince _us_ that you should be allowed to do it. If someone was running on the treadmill while doing a handstand would that be okay? If someone was juggling dumbbells would that be okay? If someone was laying across the top of a power rack and pulling the barbells up from under them would that be okay? And what if one of these people got hurt using the equipment this way? Something you need to understand, when you are on someone else’s property, you are their responsibility. That’s why businesses have to carry (expensive) insurance. That’s why they have to adhere to codes, that’s why that have to do what they can to keep everyone safe…and when something goes wrong, they have to pay for it. They do what they can to minimize their exposure. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/487 "2011-09-01T03:34:13Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > The fact that I was strapped to my wheelchair is really no different than other trainers strapping barbell-plate weights to their bodies in order to provide additional resistance to that of their body weight (which is exacty why I was strapped to my chair). I don’t see any difference in risk. Not to mention other, much more risky exercises, such as bench-pressing without a spotter, which _could_ result in death in an accident, that are allowed at HHFC without batting an eyelid. > > What is so spectacularly dangerous about _ **my** _ exercise that it must be banned? It my eye, it was because it was being _different_ and unusual, and unknown, rather than being _dangerous_, which got the exercise banned. The fact that other exercises are potentially dangerous is a total red herring - some amount of risk is assumed by the gym/their insurer, and your chosen risk falls outside that range. Some things are intrinsically dangerous but that doesn’t mean that you can do whatever you want. For example, riding a motorcycle is inherently more risky than driving a car. But that doesn’t mean that the car driver can do whatever they want because, hey, someone is doing something more dangerous! Also, you are comparing apples and oranges - the bad bench-presser will only take himself out if something goes wrong. You could injure innocent bystanders. Finally - have you considered the possibility that another patron complained about what you were doing? The guys you are asking to lift you up might not feel comfortable doing that but might also not feel comfortable saying no to an angry confrontational man in a wheelchair. I know you think people watch you and find you all inspirational and wonderful, but honestly if I saw that in my gym I wouldn’t think “wow, how inspirational”, I’d think “oooh, stay away from there, that looks super dangerous”. Do you think you have the right to make other patrons uncomfortable while they’re just trying to do their own workout? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/488 "2011-09-01T03:45:13Z")
Besides, I believe those weights are _designed_ for pull-ups, aren’t they? (The ones you strap onto your legs, that is. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/489 "2011-09-01T11:05:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Besides, I believe those weights are _designed_ for pull-ups, aren’t they? (The ones you strap onto your legs, that is. Not the ones Jamie’s talking about. There are people who strap regular barbell weights to themselves to do pullups. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/490 "2011-09-01T14:31:54Z")
I can’t for the life of me imagine why any gym would be worried about a guy with a spinal injury, at least one large settlement or award resulting from a lawsuit, and a history of confrontation using their equipment in ways for which it wasn’t intended. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/491 "2011-09-01T19:19:12Z")
The barbell-plate weights that other trainers use at HHFC to strap to their bodies to add additional weight to their pullups are _ **NOT** _, and _ **never were** _ designed to be used in this way. Yet the gym sees no problem here. If an accident were to occur with a 45-lb plate tied to someone’s waist (which is heavier than the weight of my chair), I believe _just as much_, if not more, risk of serious injury is present as is with my method of pullups. Discrimination based on my disability. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/492 "2011-09-01T19:27:57Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > The barbell-plate weights that other trainers use at HHFC to strap to their bodies to add additional weight to their pullups are _ **NOT** _, and _ **never were** _ designed to be used in this way. Yet the gym sees no problem here. > If an accident were to occur with a 45-lb plate tied to someone’s waist (which is heavier than the weight of my chair), I believe _just as much_, if not more, risk of serious injury is present as is with my method of pullups. > Discrimination based on my disability. If you want to find out for sure, ask an able-bodied person to do wheel chair pull ups and see if they ask him to stop. If they do, it’s because of the exercise. If they allow it, it’s because of you. Also, let’s be realistic, there’s a difference between 45 pounds of barbell weights strapped to your waist and a wheelchair strapped to your legs. If you fail to see the difference, I don’t think you can be reasoned with. (Haven’t you ever heard the phrase “It’s not that it’s heavy…it’s that it’s awkward”) And as I said above, those guys with the weights strapped to themselves…I’ll bet they can reach the bar with their feet touching the floor. The chances of them falling are considerably less. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/493 "2011-09-01T19:53:07Z")
With weights strapped to their waist, that’s putting the weight pretty close to their normal center of gravity. I’m no wheelchair design expert, but I’d think the weight distribution would be pretty off from back to front because the rear wheels are much bigger, the tubing for the seat back, etc. Being lifted up off the floor and then dropping down, I could see the danger of landing too far towards the back and toppling over, knocking your head or injuring yourself on the chair frame, or landing on the front wheels and going over and smacking your face on the floor. I can understand why the gym would ixnay it just from a “that looks like a really bad idea” perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/494 "2011-09-01T19:56:31Z")
To me it’s pretty clear he was “discriminated” against because he is an asshole that causes trouble. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/495 "2011-09-01T20:19:51Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > With weights strapped to their waist, that’s putting the weight pretty close to their normal center of gravity. I’m no wheelchair design expert, but I’d think the weight distribution would be pretty off from back to front because the rear wheels are much bigger, the tubing for the seat back, etc. > > Being lifted up off the floor and then dropping down, I could see the danger of landing too far towards the back and toppling over, knocking your head or injuring yourself on the chair frame, or landing on the front wheels and going over and smacking your face on the floor. > > I can understand why the gym would ixnay it just from a “that looks like a really bad idea” perspective. Or not landing square on both wheels and tipping over on its side. Not to mention possible damage to the wheelchair itself, or to the floor. in the former case, I can just see the gym being held responsible for repair or replacement if they had “authorized” him to use the equipment in what is later determined to be an unsafe manner. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/496 "2011-09-01T20:21:19Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > To me it’s pretty clear he was “discriminated” against because he is an asshole that causes trouble. Notice how I carefully worded the first sentence in my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/497 "2011-09-01T20:22:04Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > If an accident were to occur with a 45-lb plate tied to someone’s waist (which is heavier than the weight of my chair), I believe _just as much_, if not more, risk of serious injury is present as is with my method of pullups. That might be true if the pull up bar was 9 feet off the ground and those guys were wearing rollerblades while doing pullups. The fact that you can’t reach the ground and that if you fall your either going to land on your back, your face, or on wheels, makes a pretty big difference. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > To me it’s pretty clear he was “discriminated” against because he is an asshole that causes trouble. Yeah, that asshole discrimination is a real downer. The ADA should really get on that! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/498 "2011-09-01T20:24:46Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > The barbell-plate weights that other trainers use at HHFC to strap to their bodies to add additional weight to their pullups are _ **NOT** _, and _ **never were** _ designed to be used in this way. Yet the gym sees no problem here. > If an accident were to occur with a 45-lb plate tied to someone’s waist (which is heavier than the weight of my chair), I believe _just as much_, if not more, risk of serious injury is present as is with my method of pullups. > Discrimination based on my disability. So after I don’t know how many hundreds of posts over a dozen or so threads, with half of Doperdom trying to explain the other side to you, we’re still right where we started: “You don’t agree with me, therefore you don’t understand what I’m saying. They’re picking on me. I was right. They were wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/499 "2011-09-01T20:30:57Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > So after I don’t know how many hundreds of posts over a dozen or so threads, with half of Doperdom trying to explain the other side to you, we’re still right where we started: > “You don’t agree with me, therefore you don’t understand what I’m saying. They’re picking on me. I was right. They were wrong.” Don’t forget “my life is really, really hard and you can’t possibly understand it”. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050/500 "2011-09-01T20:51:39Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Don’t forget “my life is really, really hard and you can’t possibly understand it”. The shitty thing about Jamie is that his life actually is really hard and no I can’t understand what it’s like to be crippled. But because of his horrible behavior I don’t care anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jamiemcgarry-wheel-yourself-on-down-here/594050.md?page=26)