# Jan. 21, 2009 .Do you advise former president Bush to limit his foreign travel? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018 "2006-03-12T04:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/21 "2006-03-12T06:05:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you do not even believe the possibility of your own OP, why did you post it? **I** believe it, but what of that? We all know how damaged my ratiocination is… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/22 "2006-03-12T06:07:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you do not even believe the possibility of your own OP, why did you post it? Am I to conclude that I am **surrounded** by lunatics of a similar ilk? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/23 "2006-03-12T06:11:58Z")
- if, in 2013-\* I am not wedded to the stated date, which was chosen merely as the opening of a long period of ex-presidency. Certainly Bush’s exposure, such as it is, will only grow, with, as you say, the unfriendly gaze of a subsequent (presumably dem.) administration. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/24 "2006-03-12T06:13:58Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > I must confess to some consternation that all present seem to accept as a “given” that there are powers in Europe who would be likely to actualize the major premise (Bush gets snatched), and the quibbles seem to center on the subsequent consequences for the said jurisdiction, rather than the sheer height of the threshold we are lightly skipping over on the way to what, a _cassus belli_? Then you misread my post. I said no president would allow it to happen. And that would include making sure that no European power would do it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/25 "2006-03-12T06:19:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Then you misread my post. I said no president would allow it to happen. And that would include making sure that no European power would do it in the first place. well, I for one, am relieved to at least hear an objection founded upon the principle of Euro-restraint (albeit I think there are juridical powers (eg, Balthazar G, et al) who would consider it a genuine frolic to get Bush in the dock… Where he deserves, without peradventure, to be, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/26 "2006-03-12T06:33:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I said no president would allow it to happen. And that would include making sure that no European power would do it in the first place. Not that I think it’s all that likely, but if Bush is on their soil, how do you propose to stop them if they really want to ? For that matter, how would you stop them from simply running him over with a tank, Secret Service guard and all ? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/27 "2006-03-12T06:44:06Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Not that I think it’s all that likely, but if Bush is on their soil, how do you propose to stop them if they really want to ? For that matter, how would you stop them from simply running him over with a tank, Secret Service guard and all ? I think we can,( for forensic purposes, anyway), eliminate the fortuitous squishing, if only because it would eliminate the totally delightful spectacle of the trial. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/28 "2006-03-12T06:46:55Z")
speaking of the trial, btw, I recommend Bush consider Ramsey Clark as lead counsel. We know he’s a fighter, and he will defend even the most reprobate defendant. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/29 "2006-03-12T06:53:31Z")
Where did you get the idea that George W. Bush hasn’t had a passport in 40 years? (Which would be since college.) And that he is “proud” of it? Do you have an authoritative source for that claim? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/30 "2006-03-12T06:57:07Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Where did you get the idea that George W. Bush hasn’t had a passport in 40 years? (Which would be since college.) And that he is “proud” of it? > > Do you have an authoritative source for that claim? I believe when he was elected, he was cited as the first president never to have travelled outside the us (except Tijuana, of course) so as to need a passport. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/31 "2006-03-12T07:02:25Z")
Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | While we have your … Dear George,. Sorry about that delay at the airport - no one had been warned that you had never owned a passport. And thanks for warning us that your secret … [www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1087591,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1087591,00.html) - 64k - Mar 10, 2006 - ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/32 "2006-03-12T07:04:31Z")
apparently, he still doesn’t have one. (I guess the prez doesn’t need one…) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/33 "2006-03-12T07:19:15Z")
while searching for cite, I discover that Bush is not an outlier…oy vey… “What I think is a valid statistic for concern is the percentage of decision makers in the United States (and elseware for that matter) that do not own passports. President Bush famously had not travelled outside the continental US before he became president. The same is true for most congressmen and senators” [http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:9HXZG-JgERoJ:www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how\_many\_america.php+George+W.+Bush+1999+Foreign+Travel+said+no+reason+to+go+no+passport&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera](http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:9HXZG-JgERoJ:www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php+George+W.+Bush+1999+Foreign+Travel+said+no+reason+to+go+no+passport&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/34 "2006-03-12T07:26:52Z")
So, your sources are a writer named John O’Farrell who writes a pretend letter to George W. Bush, and a someone who posted a message to a blog. Isn’t odd that there are no legitimate sources for that claim? And where do you get that he is “proud” not to have a passport? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/35 "2006-03-12T07:33:48Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > So, your sources are a writer named John O’Farrell who writes a pretend letter to George W. Bush, and a someone who posted a message to a blog. Isn’t odd that there are no legitimate sources for that claim? And where do you get that he is “proud” not to have a passport? i’m going to have to get back to you with the “proud” (i recollect it from the primaries in 1999) but I believe as to the fact that he doesn’t have one, that’s settled. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/36 "2006-03-12T07:34:59Z")
btw, is that the only problem you have with this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/37 "2006-03-12T07:44:21Z")
_The New York Times_, January 14, 2001: > [@](#): > > [George W. Bush] visited China in 1975, when his father was U.S. liaison; Gambia, at President Bush’s behest, in 1990; and the Middle East in 1998, when he had begun thinking of his own run for the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/38 "2006-03-12T07:44:25Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > btw, is that the only problem you have with this thread? The only problem with this thread is that you’re the main respondant to it. Seriously, count your replies against anyone else’s. You’ve come up with the unique stance that Bush is bad, and took over the debate. What is your point? What are you adding to the world debate? I see it’s another thread for you and your lackeys to have a reason to pound away at a keyboard, but this is silly even for you. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/39 "2006-03-12T07:58:35Z")
OK. This thread had the potential to be a moderately interesting discussion on the topic of arresting former U.S. presidents for international crimes. However, with only 35 replies, the OP, himself has submitted the following hijacks: - a speculation regarding what sort of activities the formar president might enjoy (delivered as an insulting rif on purported behavior in GWB’s youth); - a second allusion to purported youthful mischief; - a complaint that no poster has challenged one particular claim in the OP; - a claim that he is, himself, a lunatic; - an aside recommending a defense counsel that is irrelevant to the discussion; - four posts criticizing President Bush for his apparent lack of a passport (none of which provide factual evidence for the claim); - and a query as to whether one question was the “only” objection to the OP. I’m going to send this over to the **BBQ Pit** where raving hijacks are more to be expected. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018/40 "2006-03-12T08:09:35Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > If I were advising Bush, I’d tell him he simply must go see the World Court in the Hague for all the fabulous, uh, frescoes. Yeah … frescoes. He’d probably say “Thanks, but I prefer Slice” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-21-2009-do-you-advise-former-president-bush-to-limit-his-foreign-travel/348018.md?page=3)