# Jan 6 Hearings Follow-Along & Commentary Thread (Starts Jun 9, 2022) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940 "2022-06-09T22:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/421 "2022-06-15T16:14:36Z")
Don’t forget that in addition to the Mueller Report, the Senate issued its own report on the 2016 Russian election interference and the connection with the Trump campaign, and their report was twice as long as twice and damning as the Mueller Report. There is also no indication that anyone at the DOJ even read it. (Sometimes I think I’m the only person that did.) I wouldn’t have expected Barr’s DOJ to act on it and the statutes of limitation were fast approaching when Biden took office - but the Garland DOJ was all too willing to let the clock run out ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/422 "2022-06-15T16:48:49Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > In other news, here’s a nifty graphic from The Grid giving us some context on viewership for the first hearing in comparison to other recent big political events. Click the graphic to see the whole thing: > > [https://photos.app.goo.gl/k18fQUZUMpjYd2q6A](https://photos.app.goo.gl/k18fQUZUMpjYd2q6A) > > So bigger than any other Agent Orange-related event other than the inauguration. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > ‘My ratings are always the biglyest!’ DJT I am disappointed that the graphic does not include the viewership for either of Obama’s inaugurations. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/423 "2022-06-15T16:56:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The Wall Street Journal pubbed an op-ed yesterday saying the J6 committee smeared him. This is the committee’s response. Huge strategic mistake, IMHO. To have the Capitol Police say that they reviewed everything extensively and the visit was completely benign and then the Committee say no that they think it was sinister undermines their attempt to portray themselves as an impartial group who is genuinely concerned about legitimate issues. If they really have the goods, then they should be as restrained as possible, and make whatever points are conclusive. Contradicting an impartial police investigation seems to be exactly the opposite of that approach. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/424 "2022-06-15T17:03:03Z")
What he said. ^ ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/425 "2022-06-15T17:09:35Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Last I heard Miller was advising on Dave McCormick’s race for governor in PA McCormick was running for senate and his campaign is over since he lost in the primary to a TV doctor from New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/426 "2022-06-15T17:10:51Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > To have the Capitol Police say that they reviewed everything extensively and the visit was completely benign and then the Committee say no that they think it was sinister undermines their attempt to portray themselves as an impartial group who is genuinely concerned about legitimate issues. Have you watched the video? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/427 "2022-06-15T19:17:21Z")
You’re right-I misremembered the race. I’m glad Oz made it as opposed to him, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/428 "2022-06-15T19:37:20Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > > [@BobLibDem](#): > > > > Part of the grifted money went to pay Kim Guilfoyle $60,000 for a 2 minute speech on 1/6. I hope the IRS is watching as well. > > Spotted on Twitter: > > [https://twitter.com/JoJoFromJerz/status/1536470915978076161](https://twitter.com/JoJoFromJerz/status/1536470915978076161) Boom! ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/429 "2022-06-15T19:42:52Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > I suspect that I could find a variety of Star Trek episodes where you’ve got Logic Man, Second in Command, the Doctor, etc. all telling the captain to do the reasonable, cold-hearted, and rational thing but the captain is swayed by one drunk, passionate person’s plea to be human and do the irrational, “right thing”. > > I think it’s pretty well established that Trump was going to listen to anyone, no matter what his credentials or character, who would tell him that he won the election and/or that he could legally overturn the official results. I don’t think taking the advice of drunk people is a good idea, regardless of what may have happened in whatever Star Trek episode, but I don’t know that Giuliani being drunk adds much to what’s already known about the group of people who had Trump’s ear in the final months. > > What has not been established - and is almost certainly untrue - is that Trump himself knew that he lost the election. There is a lot of evidence that he _should_ have known that he lost, but zero evidence that he actually did. The testimony of numerous insiders who turned on him over this matter is consistent in this regard. > > As someone remarked earlier, Trump’s capacity for self-delusion is vast, and his grasp on reality is weak. Any normal person would know that he lost, but Trump is far far removed from any normal person. I agree with this assessment. Trump’s unfettered narcissism has made him delusional about a lot of things, most regarding his intelligence, looks, athletic ability, etc. Most of the time we’re able to laugh it off and shake our heads, but now the stakes are considerably higher. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/430 "2022-06-15T20:17:31Z")
> [@Kelby](#): > > I agree with this assessment. Trump’s unfettered narcissism has made him delusional about a lot of things, most regarding his intelligence, looks, athletic ability, etc. When it comes to the things you list, it’s all about narcissism. But when it comes to politics and policy and the like - including but by no means limited to election fraud allegations - it’s beyond narcissism, it’s also about the fact that Trump is a resolutely uninformed idiot. To an idiot, the range of reasonable possibilities is far greater than that range is to a normal person. Virtually anything seems possible, if you’re stupid and uninformed enough. So there are a lot of self-serving things that an idiot narcissist will buy into which a more intelligent narcissist would never believe, despite the same level of narcissism. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/431 "2022-06-15T20:17:43Z")
I do not see why DOJ cannot conduct investigations contemporaneously w/ Congress. I am not sure why that is not possible or desirable. To the extent DOJ is ostensibly apolitical, why would it not help to have them investigate independently? Man - I’d like to hear the outcome of any prosecution of the guy who took the video above and the tour on the previous day. “Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, AOC - we’re coming for you.” And the other guy showing off his entirely innocent flagpole? ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/432 "2022-06-15T20:50:17Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > > [@Kelby](#): > > > > I agree with this assessment. Trump’s unfettered narcissism has made him delusional about a lot of things, most regarding his intelligence, looks, athletic ability, etc. > > When it comes to the things you list, it’s all about narcissism. But when it comes to politics and policy and the like - including but by no means limited to election fraud allegations - it’s beyond narcissism, it’s also about the fact that Trump is a resolutely uninformed idiot. > > To an idiot, the range of reasonable possibilities is far greater than that range is to a normal person. Virtually anything seems possible, if you’re stupid and uninformed enough. So there are a lot of self-serving things that an idiot narcissist will buy into which a more intelligent narcissist would never believe, despite the same level of narcissism. This country elected an idiot narcissist. Agreed. How is it that presumably normal, rational people didn’t see that before pulling the lever for him? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/433 "2022-06-15T20:57:45Z")
I haven’t read it, but Trump has issued a response to the hearings. I keep seeing it mentioned that it’s 12 pages, but it sort of seems to be in the context of how he’s going on and on like a crazy person. > **[Statement-by-Trump-1.pdf](https://static.c-span.org/files/resources/Statement-by-Trump-1.pdf)** > > 350.67 KB ---
**Author:** ![AlexfromCB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@AlexfromCB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlexfromCB)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/434 "2022-06-15T21:02:43Z")
Correct on Alexander Butterfield testifying that The Oval Office was bugged and everything said there was recorded. However, it did not just slip out when he testified. Butterfield was a White Aid of Nixon’s who was instructed by Nixon to set up the taping system along with the Secret Service some years back. He was called in by Committee staff to answer some questions about some other person that had testified said something that that had sounded…verbatim. He was asked about that and then admitted that the Oval Office was bugged. Butterfield had said to himself that he wasn’t going to reveal that there was a recording system but also would not lie about it if asked. I believe the interview took place on a weekend and Butterfield was brought to testify in the morning session the following Monday. There was a huge _pregame_ buzz by the media folks. No one knew who Butterfield was or what he was going to testify to but they were told it was something big. He testified for about 30 minutes. We now knew we were likely to find out who was the liar, John Dean or Richard Nixon. Looking back that was, the end of the affair. Yes, the play, sir was over. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/435 "2022-06-15T21:15:39Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I haven’t read it Ok, I’ve now read it, but I just can’t right now with a reply. It’s lies, lies, and more lies from a disgusting person. Here’s one takedown > **[Analysis: The 22 wildest lines from Donald Trump's 12(!)-page statement on...](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/14/politics/donald-trump-statement-january-6-committee/index.html)** > > In response to the second public hearing of the January 6 committee, former President Donald Trump released a 12-page statement -- yes, 12 full pages! -- seeking to rebut the charges leveled against him. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/436 "2022-06-15T21:48:43Z")
Don could always appear before the committee and clear up any misunderstandings. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/437 "2022-06-15T22:07:16Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > I am disappointed that the graphic does not include the viewership for either of Obama’s inaugurations. Here’s a graph with all the inaugurations from 1969: > **[U.S. presidential inaugurations - number of viewers 1969-2021 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/250929/us-presidential-inauguration-viewer-numbers/)** > > Barack Obama's second Inaugural Address, which took place on January 21, 2013, attracted 20.55 million viewers across the United States. Reagan’s first inauguration had the highest viewership in that group at 41.8 mil. Obama’s first is next at 37.93. Carter is 3rd and Biden is 4th. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/438 "2022-06-16T00:31:43Z")
I’m curious about these January 6 emails between John Eastman and Ginny Thomas that the committee recently obtained, according to the Washington Post. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/439 "2022-06-16T00:34:07Z")
I’m sure it was reported before and I missed it, but I just found out that John Eastman used to clerk for Clarence Thomas. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/440 "2022-06-16T00:38:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > It’s their duty to refer any and all illegal activity to DOJ. > > What’s a referral in this context? If they state “It appears Trump and Eastman violated the following laws” and publish their report, does it make a difference if they put a copy in an envelope and mail it to the Justice Department? Should they include the magic word “referral” in their report? I think the confusion stems from referrals for prosecution for contempt of Congress charges, where Congress needs the DOJ to enforce it’s subpoena power, and has to formally ask the dept. to take action. There is no such need for the January 6th Committee. Yes. There has been a lot of talk about House Committee subpoenas being ignored, and the proper response being a criminal referral to DOJ–for the act of refusing to respond to the subpoena. Nothing about _that_ implies that the proper ending to a House Committee’s work is a criminal referral. Generally the proper ending to a House Committee’s work is a report, with hearings happening somewhere along the way. The ultimate goal is to recommend _ **legislation** _—not action by the DOJ. > > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I do not see why DOJ cannot conduct investigations contemporaneously w/ Congress. I am not sure why that is not possible or desirable. A lot of people wonder this same thing. And yes, investigations take time. (I admit to a bit of irritation every time I see a defender of the position ‘_it’s incorrect to criticize Garland/the DOJ for the fact that we see no evidence they’re interviewing relevant witnesses_’ use as their primary argument _'you people don’t understand that investigations take time._’ Actually, quite a few of us **do** understand that.) > > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I actually don’t think the publicly available evidence is there yet for any of the elected officials that you mentioned, and I’m not sure that it will be. > > But I don’t understand why Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, Roger Stone and Steve Bannon, at minimum, haven’t been indicted for at least conspiracy to defraud the United States. And not only have they not been indicted, there’s no hint of grand juries, interviews, or target letters……and even if the DOJ kept these actions quiet, these men are not known for silence or discretion I should have specified in my “indictments of Republican office-holders” post that I was thinking of past office-holders as much as, or perhaps more than, current members of Congress. As you said, we haven’t yet seen damning evidence against Jim Jordan, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, and the like (well, not evidence about the 1/6 plot, anyway!) But when it comes to those you mention in the post excerpted above: there does seem to be a great deal of documentation of their participation in the plot to keep Trump in the White House despite the results of the November 2020 election. That evidence might not yet have been developed to the point of indictment, but it seems likely to me that at least some of them should currently be the focus of DOJ grand jury proceedings. We shall see. Perhaps Garland will surprise us all by eventually revealing that he _ **is** _ at this very moment pursuing accountability under the law for these individuals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=23)