# Jan 6 Hearings Follow-Along & Commentary Thread (Starts Jun 9, 2022) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940 "2022-06-09T22:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1301 "2022-06-29T19:33:37Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I’m pretty sure she used the term “The Beast”, but it’s of note that she was paraphrasing another person, so it’s possible that other person did not know exactly which vehicle was being used, or called it “The Beast” when it wasn’t actually the beast. Right. She said that Ornato said something like, “Did you hear what happened in the Beast?” That may be, in fact, what he said. She’s not claiming this incident happened in the Beast. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1302 "2022-06-29T19:34:55Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I’m pretty sure she used the term “The Beast”, but it’s of note that she was paraphrasing another person, so it’s possible that other person did not know exactly which vehicle was being used, or called it “The Beast” when it wasn’t actually the beast. She did use the term “beast” twice (and “vehicle” several other times). As has been noted, it’s possible that she was paraphrasing the term that she reported Ornato using. From the transcript of her testimony yesterday: > [@](#): > > CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: When I returned to the White House, I walked upstairs towards the chief of staff’s office, and I noticed Mr. Ornato lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine. When I went in, he shut the door, and I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump’s security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost. > > I looked at Tony and he had said, did you f’ing hear what happened in the beast? I said, no, Tony, I — I just got back. What happened? Tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the beast, he was under the impression from Mr. Meadows that the off the record movement to the Capitol was still possible and likely to happen, but that Bobby had more information. > > So, once the president had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that they were going up to the Capitol. And when Bobby had relayed to him we’re not, we don’t have the assets to do it, it’s not secure, we’re going back to the West Wing, the president had a very strong, a very angry response to that. > > Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of I’m the f’ing president, take me up to the Capitol now, to which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. > **[Here's every word from the sixth Jan. 6 committee hearing on its investigation](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108396692/jan-6-committee-hearing-transcript)** > > Read the full transcript from the June 28 House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol attack hearing. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1303 "2022-06-29T19:40:18Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > The primary reason for my own concerns is that some people who might otherwise be swayed by the testimony at these hearings are being given a reason to dismiss everything as a lie. If Hutchinson wasn’t truthful about her conversation with the Secret Service agents, it doesn’t only damage the rest of her testimony, but the credibility of the entire commission. This is a standard argumentation tactic used by those who don’t actually have a factual argument, hence it’s a staple of right-wing types in general and Trumpists in particular. It’s been used for decades by climate change deniers: find a paper with apparent weaknesses that can be attacked – whether the weaknesses are legitimate or not doesn’t matter, as long as the attacks sound good – and use that to undermine the entire body of science. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1304 "2022-06-29T19:40:41Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Anything the President is in is probably referred to as the Beast. Sort of like Air Force One. > > And that craziness that was the rally, it would probably be hard to identify one big ass black vehicle from the other. > > It’s just more bullshit from Trump defenders trying to save their own skin and deflect to unimportant issues. It’s similar to the gun people disregarding the opinions of folks who misuse terms like magazine, clip, bullet, and cartridge. If you aren’t completely familiar with the proper, esoteric use of technical language, you are not entitled to an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1305 "2022-06-29T19:46:04Z")
Here’s a [excerpt](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/15/jan-6-i-alone-can-fix-it-book-excerpt/) from the book _I Alone Can Fix It_ about an interaction between Pence’s national security advisor, Keith Kellogg, and Tony Ornato. > Around this time, Kellogg ran into Tony Ornato in the West Wing. Ornato, who oversaw Secret Service movements, told him that Pence’s detail was planning to move the vice president to Joint Base Andrews. > > “You can’t do that, Tony,” Kellogg said. “Leave him where he’s at. He’s got a job to do. I know you guys too well. You’ll fly him to Alaska if you have a chance. Don’t do it.” > > Pence had made clear to Giebels the level of his determination and Kellogg said there was no changing it. > > “He’s going to stay there,” Kellogg told Ornato. “If he has to wait there all night, he’s going to do it.” > > Ornato, through a spokesman, denied having this conversation. If you have two people saying they had a conversation with one guy, and that one guy denying that either conversation took place, it’s kind of dubious to suggest that both of them changed their perspective, and the one guy is the only one saying the unvarnished truth. Or something like that. Sounds familiar at least. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1306 "2022-06-29T19:46:19Z")
reading this, i would read in that ornato wanted to talk to meadows. hutchinson got to the office first, and he told her. i would think that he wanted more clarification on what meadows was saying about a possible otr movement, and was not happy about what happened to engel. things were very hot that day and moving fast. it may be now at a year plus away, they see it differently. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1307 "2022-06-29T19:46:28Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > Doesn’t matter if the only contradictory information in the testimony is minor or irrelevant. Many people will hear that and think to themselves, “I knew it, it’s all a sham, those dirty Liberals.” IMHO, it wouldn’t matter of Gawd, Himself wrote “She’s Telling the Truth!!” across the sky in mile-high letters of flame. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1308 "2022-06-29T19:54:20Z")
RE: the Secret Service agents denying the steering wheel incident: > The secret service will deny anything embarrassing to the Presidency. > > They're duty-bound to do so. > > — Beau of The Fifth Column (@BeauTFC) [June 29, 2022](https://twitter.com/BeauTFC/status/1541955342971670528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1309 "2022-06-29T19:56:01Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > mysterious rush Nothing mysterious about it. The hearing closed with an epilogue about ongoing witness tampering. If she is as low character as you say (and she _is_ a member of the American Right, I will grant you this), she is likely prone to being tampered with. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1310 "2022-06-29T19:56:30Z")
No idea how this guy claims to know that. I would believe that the Secret Service would refuse to comment, citing their obligation to maintain the privacy of those they’re charged to protect. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1311 "2022-06-29T19:58:55Z")
Anyway Trump got rid of the mags, knew the crowd was armed and no danger to him, he sent them to Congress to attack, told multiple people Mike Pence deserved death _as the attack was occurring_, and wanted to lead his army. Whether or not he tapped his driver on the shoulder is irrelevant. Oh, and let us not forget this: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52182342741_682ce4eb3d_z.jpg "20220629\_134037") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/52182342741/) ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1312 "2022-06-29T19:59:26Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I would believe that the Secret Service would refuse to comment The institution might, but individual agents might not. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1313 "2022-06-29T20:00:15Z")
'This guy" knows a lot. These particular agents are also super loyal Trumpers. Also, we haven’t heard a single word from either of them, just an anonymous source. I’ll take Beau’s word over an anonymous source (who is certainly a rabid Trumper as well) claiming to speak for them, while not under oath or using their own identity. That’s just me though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1314 "2022-06-29T20:01:52Z")
OK, why is this guy particularly worthy of being a trustworthy source? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1315 "2022-06-29T20:02:48Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > I would further speculate about the mysterious rush to get this hearing done ASAP on short time notice. They explicitly said that they were concerned for her safety. > **[Jan. 6 panel moved up hearing over fear that Meadows aide is in danger due to...](https://www.salon.com/2022/06/28/jan-6-panel-moved-up-hearing-over-fear-that-meadows-aide-is-in-danger-due-to-what-she-knows-report/)** > > The committee abruptly scheduled a surprise hearing due to "sincere concerns" about Cassidy Hutchinson's safety. > The committee moved up the hearing amid “sincere concerns” about Hutchinson’s “physical security because of what she knows and has revealed to the committee,” according to the report. Because of the concerns, members “felt they couldn’t wait until the House returns from recess in mid-July.” I strongly suggest you do a little more reading about this. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1316 "2022-06-29T20:07:20Z")
I don’t think I can convince you. Watch a few of his videos, they are only 5 minutes long usually. All through the Russian invasion in Ukraine, from before it even started, he was absolutely accurate about everything he said regarding how it would play out, what would happen, etc. He was an operator earlier in life, and definitely saw some stuff. He’s a leftist (a real leftist) who has read a hell of a lot more history than I can realistically ever read. I can’t really give you his CV, but I’ve been watching his channel for a while, and following his Twitter and I have yet to encounter anything inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1317 "2022-06-29T20:07:44Z")
Shot: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52182585511_70502b11d2_b.jpg "20220629\_150259") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/52182585511/) Chaser: [https://flic.kr/p/2nvdHpn](https://flic.kr/p/2nvdHpn) ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1318 "2022-06-29T20:15:19Z")
Fake news. Heh ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1319 "2022-06-29T20:16:47Z")
Now, now, let’s be fair here. Rudy is recovering from that vicious [dim mak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_of_Death) attack and is probably confused . . . and drunk. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1320 "2022-06-29T20:22:58Z")
my conclusions from all this is that trump could not use the military to stop the electoral count, pence said he could not do it, so he gathered a mob. i believe trump would think “storming the capital” would be really cool and make him look super strong. he would look amazing at the lead of this mob of people with flags with his name on it. due to a british carry over the president can only go to the capital with an invite. who needs an invite when you have an armed mob??! someone did not read the bit of history regarding charles 1. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=67)