# Jan 6 Hearings Follow-Along & Commentary Thread (Starts Jun 9, 2022) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940 "2022-06-09T22:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1341 "2022-06-30T01:09:18Z")
Yeah, I don’t see those guys testifying under oath-- they’ll be asked a whole lot of other questions about stuff they won’t want to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1342 "2022-06-30T01:13:37Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > B-b-but that’s not fair! 😧 Rusty was loyal. He said he’d vote for Don the Con again. Doesn’t that count for anything? I have a sneaking suspicion… just a whisper of a hunch, mind you… that this is coming as no surprise to Rusty. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1343 "2022-06-30T01:14:15Z")
So the Secret Service can’t claim executive privilege? ---
**Author:** ![Win\_Place\_Show](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/win_place_show/32/13469_2.png) [@Win\_Place\_Show](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Win_Place_Show)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1344 "2022-06-30T01:44:54Z")
So with the conversation being “whatever the Secret Service guys say in the press is meaningless - it only matters what they have to say under oath”, doesn’t that mean the committee has little choice but to subpoena these guys and see what they have to say? I’m kinda fatalistic and I see how the MAGAts are slowly but surely changing the narrative that Ms Hutchinson’s testimony is “garbage in / garbage out” simply due to this one meaningless detail. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1345 "2022-06-30T01:46:42Z")
Pat Cipollone has been subpoenaed. > **[Jan. 6 Committee Subpoenas Pat Cipollone, Trump’s White House Counsel](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/29/us/politics/pat-cipollone-subpoena-jan-6.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DLDmwTiPkORJCH_0bRZKF4IMM6w3GQRcdGNLsoQvE31fJVJ0tgTQDtoJKC3cpDIzkwrcj7eFIK6K_3fOJy9y72PC7-If1jxba7slXXPjO5X_eO0Gl1IVs2vZdncVq10HAClLPHELFx2oR5ia12VJ1qVHxXMnnxyvrtAxt5P9qNaAiNqVVlHrEEBkyA2IKU-LkCcw5NCF3ZTnoZ4G407d9UPdJ_L7-oZld7O5K42eNNfzQueIS5BJQxRJzWkaFrsNPPqR-KzMmwzpYmBSi9XHvapeSmFQQF4yWKH7M&smid=url-share)** > > Mr. Cipollone, who repeatedly fought extreme plans to overturn the election, had resisted publicly testifying to the panel. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1346 "2022-06-30T01:54:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Yeah, I don’t see those guys testifying under oath I was about to say they shouldn’t have a choice, but then > [@romansperson](#): > > Pat Cipollone has been subpoenaed. Somebody–the committee, or @romansperson --ninja’ed me. ---
**Author:** ![Win\_Place\_Show](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/win_place_show/32/13469_2.png) [@Win\_Place\_Show](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Win_Place_Show)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1347 "2022-06-30T02:16:41Z")
Holy shit - that was a great WaPo article. Thank you for sharing the gift link. 🍻 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1348 "2022-06-30T02:33:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I was about to say they shouldn’t have a choice… If subpoenaed, sure. What I meant was, I don’t see them voluntarily rushing forward in the interest of setting the record straight. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1349 "2022-06-30T02:44:04Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > It’s just more bullshit from Trump defenders trying to save their own skin and deflect to unimportant issues. This. It’s quite telling that this piece of trivia is what they (and Fox) are clinging to at this point. Forget about Trump actually telling folks to let guns into his rally. Let’s focus on whether or not Trump actually succeeded at lunging at the wheel of the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1350 "2022-06-30T02:51:47Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > > [@TroutMan](#): > > > > I think this is a likely scenario. It’s in some ways analogous to an abusive relationship. Immediately after an incident, the abused might call a friend to vent. But a few days later, they convince themself it wasn’t really that bad, Trump didn’t really mean to grab my neck, I kind of deserved it… > > If you have three people saying the same thing, and all contradicting one person, it’s kind of dubious to suggest that every single one of them changed their perspective via the same process, and the one guy is the only one saying the unvarnished truth. > > But if we’re going to speculate, here’s mine. Cassidy Hutchinson is someone who [“dreamed of civil significance”](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/before-becoming-a-bombshell-january-6-witness-cassidy-hutchinson-was-an-intern-who-dreamed-of-civil-significance/ar-AAZ09iZ?ocid=uxbndlbing), and got that in becoming a WH official and close to the center of power in the US. After Trump’s term ended, [she was supposed to work at Mar-a-Lago, but this fell through (possibly due to a falling-out with Meadows)](https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/28/politics/cassidy-hutchinson-who-is/index.html). Since then, [she has not had a full-time job](https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jun/28/what-cassidy-hutchinsons-background/), and was certainly unlikely to get anything impactful remotely close to the position that she had. This testimony before the Committee was another chance to be a big-time “someone” again. I don’t agree at all. I think she’s someone who, at the very young age of 24/25, found herself, by virtue of her position, embroiled in one of the highest profile legal investigations ever. I think that up until a few weeks ago she was relying on legal advice intended primarily to benefit Trump and Mark Meadows, not her, and was increasingly aware of that, and uneasy about it. I think the public hearings, all the damning information coming out, all the public attention, scared her. I don’t think she outright lied in her earlier depositions, but I think she was encouraged to be less than forthcoming. I think she got scared that her lack of candor was going to come back to bite her, so she sought her own legal counsel and they advised her to do what she did. I think the rushed nature of the testimony was the result of her being strongly pressured to stay loyal, but I think she was past the point of wavering, she just wanted to stop it by testifying immediately. Now, I enjoy wild and crazy tales of former President Trump’s douchebaggery as much as the next guy and while I appreciated the entertainment value I think the committee made a mistake in airing testimony that was so clearly hearsay that Judge Judy would’ve cut it off. I think they should’ve had her testify that Ornato and Engle seemed shaken and disturbed by the something that happened in the car with the President and I think that testimony, combined with her later direct observations of Trump and Meadows’s behavior, would’ve gotten the point _Trump REALLY wanted to go to the Capitol_ across to the viewing public, albeit in a less dramatic matter. The problem with allowing the hearsay is that it is easily discredited. It seems that EVERYONE is in agreement with the extremely damning fact that _Trump REALLY wanted to go to the Capitol_, yet now we are hung up on details like “Did he really lunge for the steering wheel or did he just throw a big tantrum and wave his tiny hands around?” It loses the point, and it’s counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1351 "2022-06-30T03:42:37Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Way to bang that drum brother! Keep it going! Allow me to continue! _We watched Donald Trump raise a private army with knowing intent on unleashing it upon the government of the United States. This meets the Constitutional definition which states, and I quote, “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.” The January 6th committee has proven to America that Donald Trump has met this Constitutional definition, and they have given us more than the two witnesses required._ _Coupled with his malignant incompetence regarding handling of the COVID crisis, the man most qualified for the title “American Antichrist” will twist and writhe in the pure poetry of pain as he burns in Hell for all time. But, in this world, Donald Trump deserves nothing more than a cigarette, a blindfold, and three minutes with a chaplain for he committed the gravest of American crimes - he tried to steal my vote. And 81 million others._ _Damn him to Hell. He is an enemy of the American State. And, by this time, after this much evidence, so are his followers. Anti-American deplorables, all of you._ I’ll workshop this a bit and then post it to various Facebook comments, see what happens. Also, credit to Dan Simmons, fuckwad that he is. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1352 "2022-06-30T03:51:49Z")
You know, to the point about treason above, I find this page very helpful, as well as the next one (about Aaron Burr). This quote from John Marshall is especially illuminating: “…On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors. But there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war.” [https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-2/ALDE\_00001226/](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-2/ALDE_00001226/) [https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-3/ALDE\_00000150/](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-3/ALDE_00000150/) ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1353 "2022-06-30T05:24:41Z")
@JohnT, you have to also point out the unorganized and low-brow level of understanding basic election law about the insurrectionists. Thinking a VP can overturn an election voted by millions. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1354 "2022-06-30T05:40:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “…On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors. But there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war.” I know you really want this to be true, but Trump did not really assemble an army together. It has to be pretty clear, and not an indirect thing. There is a reason why people are using the terms insurrection and seditious conspiracy. Because this was neither an organized army, nor did war occur. You have to look at the long history of treason charges and convictions to get an idea of what is involved. They’ve all involved actual deadly conflict between an organized group of people (foreign or domestic) and the US military. That didn’t happen on January 6, 2021. The more plausible charges that might come about could put Trump in prison for whatever short time he has left on this planet, or at least prevent him from ever taking office again. I don’t think we’re anywhere in the range of treason. ETA: A correction; former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner has been saying Trump is guilty of treason, but I’m not convinced. It’s a high bar to clear. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1355 "2022-06-30T06:27:16Z")
I’ll add, I’d also be pleased if Trump was charged with treason, I just don’t think it’ll happen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1356 "2022-06-30T11:10:08Z")
That only shows that the legal definition of treason is flawed. If goading an armed mob to violently disturb the functioning of Congress, effectively a attempted coup, doesn’t qualify. Then the term is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1357 "2022-06-30T11:24:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Because this was neither an organized army, nor did war occur. The question boils down to the legal, not the colloquial, definitions of “organized army” and “war”. The only apparent difference I can see between the 1/6 insurrectionists and an “organized army” is that the former were generally a bunch of pathetic goobers lacking much in the way of organization. That’s not really an issue so far as the law is concerned; for instance, the organized crime statutes apply to both the most rigorously disciplined and the most ineptly incompetent criminal syndicates so long as the basic elements (e.g. conspiracy) are met. Likewise, there are all sorts of situations with relatively little violence, or even none for years on end, which are states of “war”, legally speaking. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1358 "2022-06-30T11:31:23Z")
Indeed. The real significance of Trump’s toddler-tantrum on the aborted trip to the Capitol was not whether or not he “lunged at the steering wheel”, but the fact – disputed by no one – that he so desperately wanted to go there that he had a total meltdown when told that he couldn’t. And the only reason he wanted to go there was to rally his “troops” and further incite them. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1359 "2022-06-30T11:59:24Z")
I think he wanted to go to the Capitol so that he could march in with his Proud Little Boys and Oathbreakers, enter the House chamber, present a certificate that he won the election and assure the Congress that either their brains or their signatures would be on that certificate. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1360 "2022-06-30T12:13:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > present a certificate that he won the election - Crayon or Sharpie? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=69)