# Jan 6 Hearings Follow-Along & Commentary Thread (Starts Jun 9, 2022) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940 "2022-06-09T22:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1381 "2022-06-30T14:09:14Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > The problem with the “she’s just relating what she was told” angle, is that it implies that Ornato made it up. It’s even harder to see his motivation to do that, especially as he is being impugned as a strong Trump guy. > > And even beyond that, Hutchinson says she was told this in the presence of Engel, who did not deny it. So if the story is false, that would imply that Ornato told a false story to Hutchinson in the presence a guy who knew it was false, and who he successfully guessed would not deny it. Unless you buy that there was some conspiracy by Ornato and Engel to make up this particular bogus story, which seems silly. You are so backwards on this, it’s sad. All of this is why it’s unlikely that her story is false. All of this is why you are wrong to have your initial assumptions. The only reason you have them, is because it’s comforting. You’re believing an anonymous claim in the media because you want it to be true. It’s unconvincing to those who aren’t clinging up that hope. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1382 "2022-06-30T14:10:33Z")
Did they ever actually remove the metal detectors per his wish? He called those knuckledraggers “my people” 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1383 "2022-06-30T14:11:41Z")
100% It’s also exactly the same tactics Trumpworld always has used when confronted with unfortunate truths. Attack the messenger, sow chaos, claim hoax, everyone else is a liar, etc… It convinces nobody that doesn’t really really want to believe it. It’s very hard to admit when one has been had for so long. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1384 "2022-06-30T14:16:12Z")
What’s to hang your hat on right now is that there’s nothing at all to suggest that Hutchinson is not being truthful. Anonymous denials are worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1385 "2022-06-30T14:17:36Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > Supposing Trump had not requested that armed attendees be let in. Was there anything preventing these people from joining the mob at the capitol? Local DC gun control laws. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1386 "2022-06-30T14:18:39Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > TBH, I don’t get why the fact that Trump REALLY wanted to go to the capitol is such a big deal. He publically said he intended to go. What exactly is added by finding that he “REALLY wanted” to do exactly what he said he would do? Because, for years we’ve been told that Trump (who “tells it like it is”) shouldn’t be taken literally. And, so, when he spoke about how “we” we’re going to march to the Capitol and “fight” to save the country, many of his defenders said that he was speaking metaphorically, and never intended for any violence to happen - it was just a bunch of left wingers trying to make him look bad. This testimony, meanwhile, makes it clear that Trump planned to lead a fight at the Capitol and was angry when he was denied a ride (I mean, he could have still walked, but he’s incredibly lazy). If Trump would have taken ownership of his rhetoric, this evidence wouldn’t be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1387 "2022-06-30T14:34:31Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > Cassidy Hutchinson is someone who [“dreamed of civil significance”](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/before-becoming-a-bombshell-january-6-witness-cassidy-hutchinson-was-an-intern-who-dreamed-of-civil-significance/ar-AAZ09iZ?ocid=uxbndlbing)), and got that in becoming a WH official and close to the center of power in the US. After Trump’s term ended, [she was supposed to work at Mar-a-Lago, but this fell through (possibly due to a falling-out with Meadows)](https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/28/politics/cassidy-hutchinson-who-is/index.html). Since then, [she has not had a full-time job](https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jun/28/what-cassidy-hutchinsons-background/))), and was certainly unlikely to get anything impactful remotely close to the position that she had. This testimony before the Committee was another chance to be a big-time “someone” again. I appreciate the citations; I sincerely do. But I don’t think that they do much to support your argument. Your first claim is that she wanted “civil significance”. Indeed, she said that - in a puff piece for her university. It was nothing more than a generic platitude about working in government, and it’s quite a reach to suggest it evidences some sort of lust for power. > [@](#): > > “I have set a personal goal to pursue a path of civic significance,” she says. “Interning on Capitol Hill confirmed my desire to continue a path in government, and when I learned about the White House internship I was eager to apply.” > > The White House Internship Program is a hands-on opportunity designed to mentor and cultivate young leaders and prepare them for future public service. It is a highly coveted summer gig, with a rigorous screening process. “I was brought to tears when I received the email that I had been selected to participate,” Hutchinson says. “As a first-generation college student, being selected to serve as an intern alongside some of the most intelligent and driven students from across the nation – many of whom attend top universities – was an honor and a tremendous growing experience.” The second link, about how she had a falling out with Meadows and lost a job at Mar-a-Lago, relies on an unnamed source (remember how often Trump would tell us that these are worthless?) and then a typical Trump quote about how he wouldn’t give her a job and so now she wants revenge. > [@](#): > > “When she requested to go with certain others of my team to Florida after my having served a full term in office, I personally turned her request down,” Trump said on Truth Social during Hutchinson’s live testimony. > > Trump attempted to cast Hutchinson’s testimony on Tuesday as revenge, claiming she was “very upset and angry that I didn’t want her” at his Palm Beach residence. Notably, Trump never offers a reason why he decides to not take her along. And, if indeed there was a falling out with Meadows, maybe it’s because of what she saw him do, or not do, while the government was being attacked (which she’s now conveniently testified about). Your third citation, about how she’s currently unemployed, is a dead link. ETA: I can now link to it, weird. Yes, it’s a line in a WaPo story. No details as to why, so any guess that she’s struggling for work is conjecture. Of course, maybe being Mark Meadows loyal aid has been hampering the search. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1388 "2022-06-30T14:40:45Z")
Since we are apparently living in a country where nine priests conduct seances with the ghost of Thomas Jefferson to determine life in the 21st century, let’s go back to _their_ mindset. When the Founders wrote the Constitution, they did not envision a crowd being whipped into a frenzy to legally declare war against an unbeatable nuclear state in a global environment dominated by the West. What they envisioned was _exactly what happened:_ a local potentate rallying his army to attack the Congress. The Founders were but a century removed from Cromwell and the Stuart Restoration, they were well-versed in the politics of Rome and Greece, these guys were effectively humanities students at best. They weren’t thinking ‘tanks vs guy with taser’, they were fearing that which happened in France just a decade later, another ‘rabble’-lead movement. Resurrect Ben Franklin, Hamilton, Jay, whoever… show them January 6th… they would not have any trouble calling Trump’s actions treason. No 18th-century intellectual man of the world would. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1389 "2022-06-30T14:44:44Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > and then a typical Trump quote about how he wouldn’t give her a job and so now she wants revenge I don’t get why you mentioned this, and then showed the Trump quote. I didn’t quote Trump or mention revenge as a possible motivator. I would dismiss anything Trump says about this, or anything. Why would your response to me focus on something that I didn’t even mention? Honest question. > [@Moriarty](#): > > No details as to why, so any guess that she’s struggling for work is conjecture. Point is the same. She was once at the center of power and has been far far removed from that for a while now, with little prospect of getting it back. I wouldn’t assume she has a hard time getting a regular job same as anyone else, but nothing like what she was as Meadows’ top assistant or like what she accomplished with her testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1390 "2022-06-30T14:53:08Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > Bottom line, I don’t think there’s much to hang your hat on there. You are hanging your hat on an anonymous source who saying what other people are going to say. It’s the thinnest of threads. Why don’t you wait to see what Ornato actually says before jumping to the conclusion that her story is most likely false? Why are you creating a fairy tale about her possible motivation for lying when there isn’t even anyone publicly calling her a liar? “Most likely false.” That’s total fucking nonsense given the information we have. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1391 "2022-06-30T14:53:10Z")
Trump: I hardly know who this person, Cassidy Hutchinson, is, other than I heard very negative things about her. Also Trump: I personally turned her request down. So he doesn’t know her, but he personally turned her down. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1392 "2022-06-30T14:54:28Z")
One would think 7 years of having Trump defense crumble after Trump defense crushed, people would learn. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1393 "2022-06-30T14:54:52Z")
Forgot to add: the significance of her wanting to work for Trump at M-a-L after his term ended is that 1) it’s consistent with her wanting to work for a political mover-and-shaker, as she had done, and 2) it suggests that she did not turn against Trump over his post-election shenanigans, as others have been suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1394 "2022-06-30T14:57:42Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > Why would your response to me focus on something that I didn’t even mention? Honest question. Because that was the closest thing in your cite to support your assertion that she lost out on a job at Mar-a-Lago. If you don’t take Trump at his word, then where’s a credible citation that she was supposed to work there? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1395 "2022-06-30T14:58:53Z")
People who worked close to Trump are [politically radioactive](https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-trump-aides-are-struggling-to-find-jobs-in-washington-post-jan-6-2021-4). She may have felt that working at Mar-a-Lago was one of her only options. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1396 "2022-06-30T15:02:07Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Because that was the closest thing in your cite to support your assertion that she lost out on a job at Mar-a-Lago. If you don’t take Trump at his word, then where’s a credible citation that she was supposed to work there? I find it hard to believe that you genuinely think that CNN quoting “one former White House aide” is less credible than Donald Trump. But even in the unlikely event that you do think so, you should allow that others might disagree. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1397 "2022-06-30T15:02:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Russia has been doing a lot of nasty stuff to try to screw with elections for years and we haven’t done anything about it. [Oh.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/biden-administration-sanctions-russia-for-cyber-attacks-election-interference.html)[Really?](https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0126) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1398 "2022-06-30T15:17:01Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Honestly, no. If the president of Mexico addressed a crowd of American citizens and inspired them to those actions, I don’t think that would lead to war. > > It would be one hell of an international incident, sure. I can’t see war breaking out over it. Strong sanctions would be more likely. I doubt we would counter attack Mexico as well. But what we are talking about is treason, and how it’s defined. The president of Mexico cannot commit treason against the United States. Only a US citizen can. As far as the goobers in Trumps mob are concerned, let them off with very stiff penalties. Not treason though. It’s the leaders that tried to accomplish this that are the traitors. > [@JohnT](#): > > Resurrect Ben Franklin, Hamilton, Jay, whoever… show them January 6th… they would not have any trouble calling Trump’s actions treason. No 18th-century intellectual man of the world would. ^ 100% And they wrote the laws defining treason. If we are going to follow the constitution, well, lets follow the constitution. Sure, seditious conspiracy, insurrection, inciting violence, intimidating elected officials, attempted voter fraud, agreeing with a mob that the VP of the US should be hung and finally attacking the United States congress are all serious charges. Then creating, gathering and sending said mob to attack the congress of the United States so that you could take over the presidency. When that all gets wrapped together by the conspirators and the package is opened - That’s levying war against the United States. It’s clearly treason. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1399 "2022-06-30T15:19:11Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > find it hard to believe that you genuinely think that CNN quoting “one former White House aide” is less credible than Donald Trump Genuinely… why? Trump is a documented liar. When has he earned our trust? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940/1400 "2022-06-30T15:21:09Z")
[Emphasis mine] > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > I find it hard to believe that you genuinely think that CNN quoting “one former White House aide” is **less credible than Donald Trump**. Nobody is less credible than Donald Trump. [Tommy Flanagan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLRKhdQnd-k) and [Joe Isuzu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJMq_7alQpU) are more credible than Donald Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jan-6-hearings-follow-along-commentary-thread-starts-jun-9-2022/965940.md?page=71)