# Jane Elliott, Educator, asks white people if they would like to be treated like a black person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927 "2020-07-01T11:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/381 "2020-07-15T19:24:45Z")
To clarify, I said if I was me, but black, I would likely have received the same treatment as I have. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/382 "2020-07-15T19:49:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > IMHO, training is a CYA move more than anything else. If a person has been taught what asshat behavior looks like and they decide to act like an asshat in the office, then the employer can fire such an employee for not only being an asshat but also for being an idiot. > > Diversity training also lets victims of harassment and insensitivity know their complaints will be taken seriously, which is another CYA move for an employer. Well sort of. Basic diversity saying" we wont tolerate racist or sexist behavior" is one thing. Yes nobody should discriminate. You should treat others equally. Now if a person is in a presentation like Elliots or others where they are being told “you are a racist no matter what” and that white people should feel guilty and admit their “privilege”, well that doesnt always go so well. Interestingly the city of [Seattle actually had training](https://komonews.com/news/local/segregated-diversity-training-seattle-city-hall-stirs-controversy) where they sent only white people and to “We’ll examine our complicity in the system of white supremacy”. [HERE](https://christopherrufo.com/city-of-seattle-interrupting-internalized-racial-superiority-and-whiteness-training/) is a link to where you can find the course material. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/383 "2020-07-15T19:51:17Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > To clarify, I said if I was me, but black, I would likely have received the same treatment as I have. Does that mean something different than “A black person who acts like and made the choices of Kearsen1 would not experience perceived racial mistreatment”? You seem to be trying to clarify, but I don’t understand how you think I misstated your position. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/384 "2020-07-15T22:37:14Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > You guys please get together and figure out what the question is supposed to be asking, instead of having me clarify, to multiple people who all have a different understanding of the question. > Then, I’ll answer that one Since you have yourself said multiple things in this thread, and there are multiple people in this thread who might well want different things clarified, I don’t see why we should all have to agree on one question. (Eonwe and I, for instance, are asking you to clarify two entirely different things.) Therefore insisting that we do so before you’ll answer anybody has the effect of dodging everybody’s questions. If you don’t want to answer, you don’t have to. You don’t have to post anything if you don’t want to. But the not answering is on you, not on us. And if you are not going to answer me, then I’m going to conclude that nobody is attributing anything to you because of your skin color. Because I don’t see anybody doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/385 "2020-07-15T22:44:50Z")
My son-in-law is a lawyer working in the very area of taking kids away from toxic parents. I have no problem with that, when warranted. But how toxic is too toxic? Some foster parents are saints, but some do it for the money and mistreat kids. The number of books in the house is a good indicator of success in school. But do we take away kids from houses without books? Do we take away kids from houses with parents who don’t devote as much time to them as we’d like because of overwork? I know a woman whose adopted kids were a real mess. Some of it might have been inherent in the kids. Some were that her husband died young, and left her as a single mother with them. And she was educated living in an upper middle class town. Was she a bad mother? Would the kids be better off removed? Unlikely in both instances. It’s not as simple as “take kids from bad parents.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/386 "2020-07-15T22:54:37Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > She starts slamming the audience and everyone just wants to sit and listen. I’m sure you would have felt slammed, but I don’t think being forced to face an uncomfortable truth is being slammed. My answer would be no and hell no. But you’re missing the next step. It should be to create a world where the answer for most people in the audience would be yes. Do you have any objection to working for a world like that? ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/387 "2020-07-15T23:29:09Z")
By doing what exactly? I mean how can I ever be as perfect as they want me to be? BTW, did you look at the links I had above about the mandatory training for white people in Seattle? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/388 "2020-07-15T23:36:34Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Interestingly the city of [Seattle actually had training](https://komonews.com/news/local/segregated-diversity-training-seattle-city-hall-stirs-controversy) where they sent only white people and to “We’ll examine our complicity in the system of white supremacy”. [HERE](https://christopherrufo.com/city-of-seattle-interrupting-internalized-racial-superiority-and-whiteness-training/) is a link to where you can find the course material You neglected to mention that there was diversity training for non-white people also. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/389 "2020-07-15T23:40:32Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > There have been times in my life if I was a black person with the same talents and academics I have I know I could have gotten a better job because the company I work for and others I have worked for, have gone out of their way to recruit and promote black employees. Years ago and even currently I would have qualified for more college scholarships. LOL. Brilliant. “I would love to make use of whatever rare and small benefits that black people have while not giving up my white privilege.” Is this really your answer? I guess it is an answer, but probably not the one you think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/390 "2020-07-16T01:40:10Z")
Perhaps. I guess I’m simply arguing semantics. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/391 "2020-07-16T03:09:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@urbanredneck2](#): > > > > Interestingly the city of [Seattle actually had training](https://komonews.com/news/local/segregated-diversity-training-seattle-city-hall-stirs-controversy) where they sent only white people and to “We’ll examine our complicity in the system of white supremacy”. [HERE](https://christopherrufo.com/city-of-seattle-interrupting-internalized-racial-superiority-and-whiteness-training/) is a link to where you can find the course material > > You neglected to mention that there was diversity training for non-white people also. Your right I saw that too. I wonder what was different about it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/392 "2020-07-16T04:04:43Z")
[quote=“urbanredneck2, post:391, topic:913927”] Your right I saw that too. I wonder what was different about it.? [/quote]The links are right there. Apparently, those who oppress are taught how not to oppress, and those who are oppressed are taught how to recognize and fight that oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/393 "2020-07-16T12:21:27Z")
To me, it is that simple. To make it that simple, you have to first do a few things. Poverty, fix it. The poverty line is too low, and it shouldn’t be a cliff but a sliding scale. If a single mother (or father) with a couple of kids has to work 2 jobs just to put food on the table and a hovel to live it, the system needs work. Also, social workers should have lesser cases to watch over, more direct supervision would likely go a long ways to determine the things you currently question. After that, the devotion to your kids is paramount. We all want better for our kids then we ourselves have had (it’s pretty human nature to want that) so helping prioritize education would do wonders to a big chunk of America. It might very well solve a lot of the things the black population is facing now, being over-represented regarding unwed mothers and incarceration. Also get rid of drug laws regarding usage (I’m on the fence where I think what types of drugs would be the cut off) but for sure Mary J, X, and other psychotropic drugs. Cocaine and heroin might not make the cut. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/394 "2020-07-16T12:24:00Z")
You didn’t misstate it, you just didn’t add what I put as “likely” ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/395 "2020-07-16T12:57:08Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > To clarify, I said if I was me, but black, I would likely have received the same treatment as I have. You are super duper wrong about this. All your posts in this thread flow from this misunderstanding of reality. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/396 "2020-07-16T14:24:56Z")
I would have liked to ask Jane Elliott what she did back in the era of segregated schools and the whole mess with desegregation. What was it like when black students started to attend her school? Did she do her exercise with children of color? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/397 "2020-07-16T14:58:38Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > I would have liked to ask Jane Elliott what she did back in the era of segregated schools and the whole mess with desegregation. What was it like when black students started to attend her school? Did she do her exercise with children of color.? You sure have a lot of questions you would prefer to grill her about as an alternative to discussing what she actually asked at that event. May we have the entire list? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/398 "2020-07-16T14:59:48Z")
Gotcha. So, would you agree, conversely, that black people who perceive racial mistreatment are in fact just experiencing consequences of their actions? If they had made better choices then they would likely not experience what they imagine to be racism? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/399 "2020-07-16T15:15:44Z")
For some portion of them, absolutely. Look, I don’t disagree that there are racists, and I agree that racism hasn’t been stamped out, but I don’t find it as prevailing as some would lead you to believe. I live and work in the south, maybe not a Georgia south but Texas is pretty southern and I don’t see the mistreatment, nor do I hear about the mistreatment of people in the area. Do places need some work, overhauling police forces and in general a better grasp of handling the racial divide, absolutely. Do I find America to be a racist nation of laws that keep the downtrodden black population down? Absolutely not. I find that to be the job of the people who want to keep lord of that voting block and some members within the black community (and unwilling to look within) that just can’t let the past go. See racism today, kill it, burn it with fire, publicly shame them, I don’t care but the racial divide is growing, not getting better by focusing on that divide and unable or unwilling to reach a consensus of how to make things fair for all. So yes, I do think if better choices were made, better outcomes would follow. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/400 "2020-07-16T15:17:32Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Do I find America to be a racist nation of laws that keep the downtrodden black population down? When do you think this ended? And why are you certain that there are no remnants still going on from this long, dark period? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927.md?page=21)