# Jane Elliott, Educator, asks white people if they would like to be treated like a black person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927 "2020-07-01T11:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Raucous84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Raucous84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raucous84)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/461 "2020-07-27T19:19:20Z")
Got that, I was just realizing and saying that the inclusion of “too” after “matters” in the phrase (to make it seem less exclusive - not that explicit non-exclusivity should be necessary), wouldn’t be an issue to those unbothered by the phrase now, as it stands. So essentially, those bothered by the existing phrase would not necessarily be more likely to support the plight merely by the use of “too”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/462 "2020-07-28T03:27:36Z")
The issue with demanding, as plenty of whites do now, that “Black Lives Matter” include more words to be “more inclusive” is no different than the sheer racism behind the term “white trash”. The default value for _trash_ is _Black_. One does not hear (or at least in my 61 years on this planet, I have never–not even once–heard) the word _trash_ appended to any other race than white. In short, all other races are, by default, trash and it is only “bad whites” that are trash; “good whites” are not trash. That’s the “logic” used by the bigots. The _default_ for whose lives matter to police and the courts is white lives. By default, Black lives do not matter to the police, the courts, or to the general public, which, of course, is overwhelmingly white. One does not need to be reminded that the lives of white by default matter to those groups. What one does need to be made aware of is that Black lives, in fact, do matter. It is the bigots who are demanding that those who are being dehumanized change _their_ language of protest. And if the protestors were to change their language of protest, it would only diminish the actual issue. Actually it would have the sole effect of _negating_ the issue. That is what those demanding “inclusive language” by BLM protestors want. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/463 "2020-07-28T03:57:08Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Would a person living a middle class life want to change places with a person who is blind or in a wheelchair? > Would that confirm prejudice against the disabled? No and no. ---
**Author:** ![Raucous84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Raucous84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raucous84)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/464 "2020-07-28T23:12:19Z")
Your comments are comprehensive, and well stated. In conversing with a co-worker today, I made mention of this discussion. He and I talked about the fact that sometimes, in order to seem less “disagreeable”, some Black people tend to err on the side of attempting to find a happy medium on discussing issues of race. That’s how the idea of making the phrase more palatable was devised. Fear of backlash, denouncement, retaliation, or any other consequences are always at the heart of that inclination. If someone Black supports BLM as is, they are categorized as militant, radical or any number of other unsavory terms. My coworker and I also talked about how certain mannerisms in Black people are either “rewarded“ or “punished”. A degree (or three) or pragmatism may positively contribute to more favorable livelihoods for many Blacks. I’m not sure if you’re a POC, or one who’s ever had to wrestle with deciding to wager loss of work/status and speaking out. Those in such a position would usually rather find some sort of non-threatening “middle ground” to speak from. Nonetheless, I get your point - the audience that takes issue with the phrase are not going to understand the movement more, or be more likely to become allies due to a repackaged message. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/465 "2020-07-29T01:25:20Z")
@ [Raucous84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raucous84) Thank you. I am not a POC; however, I am married to a person who is not white. She is a Korean citizen and has only visited the United States thrice. I grew up in Dixie so I have seen plenty of instances of incredible prejudice against Blacks. If we ever do move to the US, the racial justice situation will play a major part in where we decide to live. > [@Raucous84](#): > > A degree (or three) or pragmatism may positively contribute to more favorable livelihoods for many Blacks. The reaction of the bigots–and there are incredibly far too many of those–to Blacks having a degree, any degree, in my experience, usually falls into the “they didn’t earn it; it was a handout because they’re a minority” BS. Ignorance and Bigotry are not only twins, but they apparently are quite powerful. > [@Raucous84](#): > > Those in such a position would usually rather find some sort of non-threatening “middle ground” to speak from. Nonetheless, I get your point - the audience that takes issue with the phrase are not going to understand the movement more, or be more likely to become allies due to a repackaged message. What the audience demanding the dehumanized people change their language of protest want is to no longer bother the audience, those who happen to be doing the dehumanizing. There is no “I want them to be less threatening; I want them to help me understand them more” to it. They want the dehumanized to STFU and go back to being subservient. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/466 "2020-07-29T08:21:00Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The _default_ for whose lives matter to police and the courts is white lives. By default, Black lives do not matter to the police, the courts, or to the general public, which, of course, is overwhelmingly white. No, I am sorry but that isnt true in many parts of the country. Southern California for example is predominantly hispanic and Asian. New York City is technically 42% “white” but NYC is a diverse city of dozens of ethnicities. Miami is 70% hispanic. East St. Louis is 99% black. Many towns in Texas and Arizona are near 100% hispanic and many have town meetings only in Spanish. Also the growing racial group is “mixed”. So why should a person who is NOT black or white, also want not something besides “Black Lives Matter”? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/467 "2020-07-29T10:17:08Z")
Good God, you’re fucking stupid, UR. Do you actually have a point in that mishmash of bad grammar and utter intentional ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/468 "2020-07-29T18:16:42Z")
I answered that question, to only be told (by more than one person) that, that ISN’T what the question is asking. For this very reason, it is a dumb question to pose. If the question was to validate that racism occurs or that some black people have a harder time in today’s world, then ask that one. Then you can get down into the why’s. But by not asking that question you can let people believe that racism is the overlying cause of all the woes of the black communities. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/469 "2020-07-29T18:24:52Z")
Right! Nailed it in one. Or maybe it is just not as prevalent (SYSTEMIC) as some would lead you to believe? Like: Show me the numbers of non criminal racial disparity among educated workers, college grads , or wealthy black folks. Show me the numbers of unwed mothers racially categorized, and their general welfare disparity. Show me the families who provide support for education among racial groups that show disparity. Those are just a few data points, but I can almost guarantee you that they don’t show much difference among the races. The people in power want you to be divided, race is a good way to do that. Point being, black people, are way way over-represented in the areas I just mentioned and only they can want to get themselves out (and make the choices to do so) But it is much easier to label everything as racist and be done with it. Not ALL of it is, but a lot of it is an excuse to keep making the same bad decisions over and over. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/470 "2020-07-29T18:25:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Good God, you’re fucking stupid, UR. Do you actually have a point in that mishmash of bad grammar and utter intentional ignorance? Ahh, typical leftist comeback. Are you blind? Do you not notice their are more races than blacks and whites? How about issues between say hispanics and blacks? I was just darting to counter your opinion that the courts will by default, rule on the side of the white person. So when you say “Black Lives matter” what about everyone else that has issues of their own? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/471 "2020-07-29T18:28:34Z")
How do you argue with statements like these? R: Black people with degrees do better in life M: Yeah but the white people just say they didn’t earn the degree. I mean, srsly… You aren’t going to reach or change the minds of the bigots. Good thing there are not a whole lot of them you need to deal with! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/472 "2020-07-29T21:41:01Z")
I don’t have statistics on Hispanics, but in the Bay Area we have a large Asian population, of all types, and I can’t recall a single instance of a cop shooting an Asian in the way Blacks are getting shot. Do you think Asian parents have to have the conversation with Asian kids? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/473 "2020-07-29T23:29:29Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > So when you say “Black Lives matter” what about everyone else that has issues of their own? One more time: Black Lives Matter does not mean and was never intended to mean the lives of others don’t matter. I have friends who are Pakistani, Latino, and Asian (specifically, Chinese and Japanese) who support BLM. Yes, all of them face discrimination in their daily lives. My Pakistani friend posts comments on the discrimination she faces on social media. She also posts pro-BLM views. Here’s an article that should help you understand. Take 2 minutes and give it a look: > **[75 ways Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders are speaking out for Black lives](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/75-ways-asian-americans-pacific-islanders-are-speaking-out-black-n1230551)** > > “Many of us wouldn't even be in this country, if not for Black struggles for justice,” one Asian American activist said. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/474 "2020-07-29T23:39:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I can’t recall a single instance of a cop shooting an Asian in the way Blacks are getting shot. [Bich Cau Thi Tran’s death comes to mind for me.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Bich_Cau_Thi_Tran) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/475 "2020-07-30T00:27:34Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Ahh, typical leftist comeback. > > Are you blind? Do you not notice their are more races than blacks and whites? How about issues between say hispanics and blacks? I was just darting to counter your opinion that the courts will by default, rule on the side of the white person. > > So when you say “Black Lives matter” what about everyone else that has issues of their own? I’m leftist? You wouldn’t happen to have any proof—other than your own prejudices agains leftists–that I am, would you? Are you illiterate? I clearly stated that I am married to a woman who is neither Black nor white. And where the fuck did I ever say the “courts will automatically rule in favor of whites”? I already quite clearly discussed your asinine last sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/476 "2020-07-30T00:37:22Z")
[Here is an open letter signed by a number of mathematicians calling for a boycott on working with the police](https://www.math-boycotts-police.net/). One of the problems mentioned in the letter is _predictive policing_\*. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/477 "2020-07-30T04:50:08Z")
I just self-reported/flagged my last post above directed to UR. I really thought I was posting in The BBQ Pit. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Raucous84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Raucous84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raucous84)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/478 "2020-07-31T18:34:52Z")
Monty, Again, I appreciate your perspective and thorough reply. I agree; Black people who are less likely to be vocal about injustices should reconsider that stance. Your insight is for prime for paradigm shifts - which is why I participate on SD! Many thanks. Sent using the [mail.com](http://mail.com) mail app ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/479 "2020-08-01T01:29:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > a number of mathematicians 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/480 "2020-08-08T00:16:03Z")
Monty. Anything else like this and I’ll ban you from the thread henceforth. I hope that’s clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927.md?page=23)