# Jane Elliott, Educator, asks white people if they would like to be treated like a black person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927 "2020-07-01T11:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/81 "2020-07-03T12:44:55Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Is it possible that a subconscious bias leads people to read resumes more critically if they have a “black” name and be less likely to call them, but then be surprised that no applicants who made it to the interview stages ended up being black? True story. I had a friend that was looking for work in her health care field after her divorce from a Indian man. She sent out tons of resumes and got no callbacks. I told her to go back to her maiden name. She did and found work right away. Now, what I came here to post: Most of my family is Southern and working class and not highly educated. They certainly aren’t what I’d call “woke”, by any means. But we see “white privilege” everywhere, including in ourselves. We call it out all the time. It’s about no one questioning if we are members when we go to the pool. It’s about never getting our receipts checked when we leave Walmart. It’s about no one every doubting we belong or wondering what we can afford or using my presence on the block as a way to sell security systems to my neighbors. It’s about language. When we were young we “experimented” with drugs and “snuck into” the country club after hours. If we appropriated something someone dropped, we “found” it, we didn’t steal it. It’s about getting to navigate the world as a full member. I feel that if someone doesn’t see it, that means they haven’t looked. But I’m afraid it’s just tge breathtaking lack of empathy combined with complete and total selfishness that characterizes about half the the country. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/82 "2020-07-03T12:51:10Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#): > > You could even change it further. Would a person living a middle class life want to change places with a person who is blind or in a wheelchair? Would that confirm prejudice against the disabled? Um…yeah? I think it would at least confirm that people don’t think being blind or being in a wheelchair are enviable positions to be in. But note that Elliot didn’t ask “Do you want to be black?” She asked people if they want to be treated like they are black. If someone asked me if I wanted to be white, I’d say no. Not because I think white people are discriminated against, but because I rather like the person I am and that person is connected to my current racial identity. But if someone asked if I wanted to be treated like I’m white, I’d say yes. I don’t think white people are always privileged, but I can’t imagine that the treatment that white people get is worse than the treatment that black people get, at least when both are averaged over the long term. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/83 "2020-07-03T12:54:26Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > > [@urbanredneck2](#): > > > > And what really is she trying to say with the rest of her statement? Yes, we know black people are often discriminated against. What are we supposed to do about it? > > > > No really? > > At an absolute bare minimum, you could avoid rummaging through the internet looking for things you can construe as insulting to yourself and then posting them in hopes of finding some sort of catharsis through shared recreational outrage with other white people. This reminds me, I’ve got to ask the TPTB to enable the “like” button, ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/84 "2020-07-03T14:02:21Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > If you see women of color much more represented as unwed mothers, should we give them shit for it, No, why the hell would you do that? > [@Kearsen1](#): > > should the leaders in the black community work to make a difference? Who exactly are they, and what exactly do you want them to do? > [@Kearsen1](#): > > If we see educational importance lacking for people of color, should we give them shit for it or should we expect people in charge of those districts prioritize help. Well, no, we should not do what we do now, and give them shit for it, but yes, we should hold those in charge of the school system accountable for its failures. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > Should we be taking away kids of parents who can’t perform this basic parental skill? We should certainly be helping any parent who struggles with raising a child. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > What about drugs, gangs, black on black killings? Yeah, you are right, the black community leaders should stop scheduling those. Or at least limit it to DGBoBk Tuesdays. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > It all needs to be addressed by the leaders of the black community first and foremost, And would they be given the resources to address those problems, or just be told, “You’re the black community, fix your own problems.”? > [@Kearsen1](#): > > What has happened though is that all of these things are being excused under the excuse of “racism” Hmmm, I haven’t seen that. I’ve seen rather long and nuanced discussions about how not only the history of racism and discrimination, but its contemporary continuation has deep and long lasting effects in the affected communities, but just blanket excuse as you call it, that’s pure strawman. And for some reason that I cannot fathom, you took my statement that you should give someone shit about doing something with the intent to harm another, and used it for people that you don’t think are doing good enough. For the “same though process” to be used, you would have to be saying that women of color have slightly more children out of wedlock for the specific purpose of causing someone harm. Can you elaborate on your thought process here at all? > [@Kearsen1](#): > > Not ALL problems, just the ones over-represented in that community. So, what can the white community do about its problem with embezzlers and wage thieves? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/85 "2020-07-03T14:13:51Z")
They should imprison the embezzlers of course, that is what we do with criminals. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/86 "2020-07-03T14:17:20Z")
Oh, has that solved the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/87 "2020-07-03T14:24:06Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > They should imprison the embezzlers of course, that is what we do with criminals. Shouldn’t we consult with the leaders of the white community first, since it is their responsibility to police their own? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/88 "2020-07-03T14:27:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s why people bristle when they hear of “white privileged”, they think we are saying that it is something unearned that will be taken away. > > What it really is is that we want everyone to have it. Freedom from institutional inequality is a right, not a privilege. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/89 "2020-07-03T14:29:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Shouldn’t we consult with the leaders of the white community first, since it is their responsibility to police their own? Why don’t we have a like button yet?! ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/90 "2020-07-03T14:31:36Z")
Are they over-represented in that area and are they requesting said help in dealing with the issues that plague them? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/91 "2020-07-03T15:00:13Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Freedom from institutional inequality is a right, not a privilege. On the other hand, it’s just a word and what really matters is that we agree that everyone should be treated with equal respect and opportunity and freedom. It is heartening to me to hear so many people lately acknowledge that many instances of – whatever you want to call the phenomeon – are merely instances of white people being treated a lot less bad, while still being treated worse than if the situation didn’t exist in the first place. I wonder if it was the visible attacks by the police on all of the protestors (while ignoring the looters) that influenced that, but at any rate, it is progress in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/92 "2020-07-03T15:48:05Z")
Maybe this is way off topic but are people “proud” to be whatever race they are. Proud to be white, black, brown, yellow, green? I, for one, have never thought to be proud of my race. Proud to be an American, thankful even at times, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/93 "2020-07-03T16:02:17Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Maybe this is way off topic but are people “proud” to be whatever race they are. Proud to be white, black, brown, yellow, green? I find it astonishing that you have never come across any explanations as to what is meant by “pride” when it pertains to skin color on this board or in real life. Here is a link that might help you understand what is going on. If this doesn’t answer some questions I can provide three or four thousand more. > **[Black pride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pride)** > > Black Pride in the United States is a movement which encourages black people to celebrate African-American culture and embrace their African heritage. In the United States, it was a direct response to white racism especially during the Civil Rights Movement. Stemming from the idea of Black Power, this movement emphasizes racial pride, economic empowerment, and the creation of political and cultural institutions. Related movements include black power, black nationalism, Black Panthe Black pride ... ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/94 "2020-07-03T16:08:11Z")
People are often proud about overcoming adversity. Black pride, gay pride stuff like that. Others are proud of perpetuating adversity, white pride, straight pride, stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/95 "2020-07-03T16:11:34Z")
Doesn’t that pride in the color of one’s skin, allow people to divide and conquer? I believe it does, why can’t people just be people and we all stop letting ourselves be divided? I get being proud of overcoming and adapting, but proud to be a color or type (alternate types only I suppose) because people want to be proud of being different? But in a perfect world where everyone is treated the same regardless of orientation, skin color or whether they eat peanut butter on their pancakes, there is no pride in being a color, even if it’s a different color than someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/96 "2020-07-03T16:15:41Z")
Did you read the link I provided yet? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/97 "2020-07-03T16:17:05Z")
They are asserting pride because they were taught they should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/98 "2020-07-03T16:23:18Z")
And this is far from a perfect world. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/99 "2020-07-03T16:24:45Z")
Yes, I did, it is a group pride of individualism. I still don’t really follow the need on it’s own merits. If it is because they have been told that they weren’t worth anything previously, I suppose I can see the pride early in finding out that they do have worth, Kinda like being overweight, and having people let you know that BIG is beautiful, or whatever the issue is that makes you different than whatever norm is common. But color of skin isn’t a choice, like being overweight, or being bald (at least these days) With all the different ways to divide people, this one works the best so far. And we let it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927/100 "2020-07-03T16:25:39Z")
I agree, but don’t we strive to be? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-elliott-educator-asks-white-people-if-they-would-like-to-be-treated-like-a-black-person/913927.md?page=6)