I think the escape hatch concept is the problem, not the solution. It ensures there will always be hopeless “left behinds.”. The hopelessness of the left behinds will always be used to justify the need for the escape hatches. If we eliminate the escape hatches, then the cream that would have otherwise been skimmed off would be able to take the taint off those who would have been otherwise left behind. Instead of the resources (capital as well as human) being diffused across multiple schools and districts, they would be focused on a single institution so that everyone in that institution will be helped. Instead of a school district only having 40% decent schools with one or two flagship schools, 70% of them could be decent with two or three flagships.
I don’t know if it’s just emotional callousness or willful ignorance, but I’m constantly amazed by conservatives that seem unable to view an problem or issue in a context broader than the immediate effect on them or their family.
Someone suggests that it’s the aggressors in society, not the victims, that want to forgive and forget and the reaction is “Someone must’ve been mean to you”. Someone suggests that we need to make our school system work of everyone, not just kids with motivated parents, and the reaction is “You must want to send your kids to bad schools”. A dictator across the world threatens to nuke California and the reaction is “I don’t care, I live on the East Coast”. Now almost half the country thinks the very concept of public health, protecting the the community via alterations in the behavior of individuals, is “anti-American and anti-freedom.
I am a great believer in personal responsibility and overcoming bad circumstances. I preach this to my friends and family.
But public policy is different. Public policy has to realize that, by definition, not everyone can be exceptional. We can’t all be the best and brightest. We can’t ALL even be average in intelligence and motivation. Public policy discussions should be centered around giving EVERYONE a seat at the table and a pathway to a good life. Just because a wall isn’t insurmountable and some people can scale it, that doesn’t mean it’s not a wall.
How about we don’t leave it to teachers to do everything? Let’s get some social workers to help with the family problems so that the teachers can just teach.
Well to be honest, for that to work you would have to take those kids out of the home and either put them in foster care or boarding schools (BTW, I personally LIKE boarding schools as a place to allow the good kids who come from a bad situation to thrive). We have social services to help families but they can only really help those who want help.
Dopers who know me well enough are probably sick of this story, but here goes:
[/quote]Thanks for the great story.
Getting back to the OP I would have liked to have seen Elliot discuss such issues. These are the nit and gritty examples of how our public schools can hurt black children.
Now personally I didnt see this at my kids schools because there were few black children and those tended to be very bright because they came from good families. My son was in a remedial class and I dont remember any black children in it.
At my sons high school I saw a teacher go out of his way to approach and talk to a family of a black girl to interest her in joining his pre-engineering classes (Project Lead The Way).
But without “escape hatches” the better kids are stuck in a crappy school where students roam the halls and cause chaos and the good kids cannot learn even if they want to.
So without some “escape hatches” good parents have no choice but to up and move to a better area. I see this in Kansas City KS schools which has one school, Sumner Academy, which is a college track magnet school which basically skims the top 20% of the best students from the districts 5 other high schools. Oh yeah, the remaining high schools are angry that they are expected to get good results with the remainders.
We don’t allocate enough social services to help everyone that would benefit from them. Instead of being honest and admitting that we don’t have enough social workers and special programs, we say we can only really help those who want help. Saying this over and over convinces us that it’s OK not to spend more money on social workers and special programs.
[quote=“Ann_Hedonia, post:323, topic:913927, full:true”]
I don’t know if it’s just emotional callousness or willful ignorance, but I’m constantly amazed by conservatives that seem unable to view an problem or issue in a context broader than the immediate effect on them or their family.
[/quote]There is an saying even among the most liberal, woke, progressive families learn to follow: “You dont sacrifice your own children on the altar of your values”.
To be clear, moving is one of those “escape hatches” as well.
And yes, being “stuck in a crappy school” is a side effect of removing escape hatches. It might encourage more equitable distribution of resources and focus attention on solving problems for all students instead of allowing poor schools to settle on a concept of “good enough to squeak by” as a goal.
As a member of my community, I feel that I have an obligation to my local school, as well as to the students who attend and their families. Sending kids (and money) elsewhere makes the community weaker.
You’re right that for many parents securing high scholastic achievement for their children is a priority over a lot of supposed social obligations, somewhat understandably, and there’s a whole host of dysfunction around life in America that’s wrapped up in that. I appreciate that not everyone is going to make the same choices here.
But, we can certainly encourage parents and communities to build and not abandon their community resources. If enough do so, we all benefit.
I was bussed. I grew up in a lower income neighborhood and went to schools in higher income neighborhoods. There was an elementary school just up the street from my house that I could have gone to, but my parents were like “Nope!” And I was like “Say no more, fam!”
It was always weird trying to connect with the neighborhood kids–because they all knew each other, being schoolmates and everything. Despite having lived in the neighborhood my whole life, I wasn’t a part of the neighborhood, not like they were. To deal with this disconnect, I rapidly internalized the notion that they were inferior to me. They must be inferior if my parents didn’t want me to go to school with them, right?
I remember one time in the fourth grade, we had a new girl in the class. She was sharp and confident in herself. Apparently she’d been skipped up a grade. Her “old” school was the school in my neighborhood. The one I would have gone to if my parents hadn’t pushed me through an escape hatch starting in kindergarten. Meeting her was the first time it dawned on me that the kids at that school were just as smart and capable as the kids at my school. I honestly had no freakin’ idea. I don’t blame my parents, because they never told me I was better than anyone. I do blame the escape hatch concept for fostering that impression.
(I actually have no memory of that girl beyond her first day of school. She must have not lasted longer than a month before she was gone. I’ve always wondered what happened to her. Maybe her parents realized my “good” school wasn’t really all that and took her back to her old school. LOL.)
Your parents made a choice based upon what? It wasn’t simply a higher vs lower income school , at least that doesn’t make much sense to me. Even if the two correlate to better and worse schools by whatever metric you care to use.
I know, prior to having kids of school ages, I researched the areas around where I lived at the time. I moved 15 miles to be able to put them in a top 50 public school system, because where i was was absolutely dismal. Even here there must be 20 different charter school and other private schools as well as a handful of religious school available.
Granted, this area would be seen a higher income area but it wasn’t really all that high when I moved here 16 years ago.
What it did have, and what has continued is that the parental involvement here is off the charts. And parents here , for the most part put forth effort and time motivating their kids and prioritizing their children’s education.
I don’t understand what you are asking me. Why doesn’t it make sense to you that folks in a lower income neighborhood would want to maximize their kids’ educational opportunities by bussing them to higher income neighborhood schools? My parents are engimatic creatures, but their thinking here wasn’t THAT mysterious. Their thinking was, “Schools serving wealthy white kids are better than schools serving poor and working class black kids. So let’s send the kids to the wealthy white kid schools.”
My parents have the same thinking that a lot of people in thread have. “Why should I leave my babies in a school with a bunch of kids that are neglected and uncare for? Those kids might be super cute and sweet and everything, but they aren’t the kind of peers I want my kids to have. And I don’t want my kids’ teachers to be the kind of teachers who have low expectations for their students. I want my kids’ teachers to see them as future teachers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, and presidents. I don’t want my kids’ teachers to treat them like the best they can hope for is getting a joe-job at the airport where they will be lucky if they ever make more than $13 hours an hour.”
If you dangle an escape hatch in front of a parent, you’re basically telling them there’s a good reason to escape. Doesn’t matter if there is no good reason. They will assume there must be one and not bother finding out if this is in fact true.
I guess it doesn’t make sense to me because I didn’t search for demographics or a breakdown of wealthy or poor, black or white. I just googled school grading done by the State.
No, because I understand that the world does not equal one person’s experiences, even if they’re a noble, discerning, and intelligent person such as myself.