# Jane Fonda referred by Congress to DOJ for treason **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2022, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880 "2022-12-21T05:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/21 "2022-12-21T07:04:27Z")
That’s because treason has a very specific definition under the Constitution, to wit; > [@US Constitution](#): > > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. Treason is a very difficult crime to charge and prove. Even the Rosenbergs, some of the most famous traitors of the 20th century, were only charged and found guilty of espionage. Almost nobody has even been charged with treason, let alone convicted, since the end of WWII. > [@Janus](#): > > The US constitution has check and balances You need to be a lot more specific than that. Congress has the authority to approve or reject the president’s nominee for Attorney General and certain other DOJ officials, and they may create laws that they expect the DOJ to uphold, but they do not have the authority to tell the AG what to do. A criminal referral from Congress is a recommendation, not an order. ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/22 "2022-12-21T07:06:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You need to be a lot more specific than that. Congress has the authority to approve or reject the president’s nominee for Attorney General and certain other DOJ officials, and they may create laws that they expect the DOJ to uphold, but they do not have the authority to tell the AG what to do. So the Congressional referral is meaningless? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/23 "2022-12-21T07:08:13Z")
It’s up to the AG, and ultimately the Special Counsel, to decide if they want to do anything with it. ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/24 "2022-12-21T07:09:13Z")
Did the AG and special counsel already do their own investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/25 "2022-12-21T07:09:54Z")
They have been conducting their own investigation, but Jack Smith has definitely taken an interest in the committee’s findings. ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/26 "2022-12-21T07:10:46Z")
Why didn’t Jack Smith find this out for himself? ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/27 "2022-12-21T07:15:28Z")
The Congressional Committee is political theater. The professionals of the DOJ have investigated. Jane Fonda is not guilty of Treason ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/28 "2022-12-21T07:22:26Z")
All politics is theater. The voters are the audience. In other news, water is wet and kittens are cute. ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/29 "2022-12-21T07:24:25Z")
Is Jane Fonda guilty of Treason? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/30 "2022-12-21T07:28:24Z")
> [@Janus](#): > > Is Jane Fonda guilty of Treason? …asked and answered. > [@Janus](#): > > She is not guitly of treason. /thread. ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/31 "2022-12-21T07:33:41Z")
that is my point. Jane Fonda is not guilty of Treason. The DOJ knows that. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/32 "2022-12-21T07:50:47Z")
> [@Janus](#): > > that is my point. Saying “that is the point” when no point has been expressed does not magically cause a point to appear. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/33 "2022-12-21T07:50:49Z")
As debates go, this one lacks greatness. Discuss? ---
**Author:** ![Janus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Janus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/34 "2022-12-21T08:01:19Z")
Yes I’m wrong. Discussing congressional oversight of the DOJ is a bad thing. i will shut up now ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/35 "2022-12-21T08:03:20Z")
Your hypothetical has _already_ put forth that she isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/36 "2022-12-21T08:14:55Z")
> [@Janus](#): > > Discussing congressional oversight of the DOJ is a bad thing. NO ONE here has stated that discussing congressional oversight of the DOJ is a bad thing. Is this what you _really_ wanted to talk about? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/37 "2022-12-21T08:14:59Z")
Congress has certain powers over the DOJ, as with any executive agency. Budget, making certain positions subject to Senate confirmation, changing the laws they enforce, etc. But, the head of the executive branch has the authority to direct the agency’s policies, or give orders to enforce or not enforce. Congress can’t impinge on those powers. Congress could pass a law saying that a certain person is guilty of a crime, but that would not be enforceable because it’s unconstitutional. Likewise, passing a new law defining what the targeted person clearly _did_ do as a crime, and applying it retroactively would be unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/38 "2022-12-21T10:29:58Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > As debates go, this one lacks greatness. Discuss? As debates go, this one lacks debate. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/39 "2022-12-21T10:35:53Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > As debates go, this one lacks greatness > [@Dissonance](#): > > As debates go, this one lacks debate. As debates go, this one should go. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880/40 "2022-12-21T10:43:43Z")
> [@Janus](#): > > But if a congressional committee referred this to the DOJ, would the DOJ be obliged to investigate? The DoJ may be ethically obligated if the evidence is strong, but they are not legally obligated to follow up on criminal referrals. That is necessary due to the principles of prosecutorial discretion and separation of powers. (Prosecutorial discretion is a strictly executive-branch power in our federal government.) When Jane Fonda was arrested on drug smuggling charges in the '70s, it was said to be on Nixon’s orders, not Congress’s. For a real life example, when members of Congress made a criminal referral regarding Chris Steele (author of the Steel dossier), it was reported as a “request”. When Congress wants to direct an investigation, rather than simply recommend one, they must either appoint a special counsel (formerly independent counsel, examples include Mueller and Start) or perform the investigation themselves. Under no circumstance may Congress direct a criminal prosecution. Even with special counsel, Congress may only compel the production of a report; the decision to prosecute and the right to represent the government in a courtroom is strictly executive, and in that respect Congress is powerless. However note that, at least in the past, the DoJ’s internal policy was to not investigate matters occuring before Congress unless Congress referred the matter. (This was something I believe former FBI director James Comey testified about years ago, regarding perjury before Congress as I recall.) ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-referred-by-congress-to-doj-for-treason/976880.md?page=3)