# Jane Fonda "Traitor E-mail" True or Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377 "2008-09-13T01:15:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/21 "2008-09-14T01:12:17Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I’ve done the reading and know much of the background. All I suggested was that a substantial portion of the Vietnamese people did not share Ho Chi Minh’s vew of what form of nationhood was desirable. Catholics, for instance, were not big fans of the form of government Ho wanted. Yes, I know there was corruption in the So. VN gov’t and know that ARVN was a relatively useless army. That does not mean that the war was provoked or caused solely by the United States – I can’t imagine the population of the South would have stood for that if there were absolutely no native opposition to the North, and of course there was such opposition. > > My only point in my earlier post was that another poster had said something to the effect of Vietnam resisting interference with its self-determination as a nation. Well, apparently even the Vietnamese differed on the nature of that self-determination and nationhood. Dwight Eisenhower himself admitted that, in a free and fair election, Ho Chi Minh would probably have received somewhere around 80% of the popular vote. If that’s the sort of internal differences that justify invasion, then there’s barely a single US president since WWII who shouldn’t have been overthrown. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/22 "2008-09-14T01:31:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re comparing Jane Fonda, a traitor who went to Vietnam and allowed them to use her for propaganda, to an imaginary Red Cross worker? Besides using a strawman to make a point you’ve insulted the Red Cross. :dubious: Insult the Red Cross? Pull up numerous threads that show why many people, particularly WWII veterans will contribute absolutely nothing to the Red Cross. If you want more recent history look at their record after 9/11. There are a multitude of agencies that are more effective and more efficient than the Red Cross. They just happen to be the biggest. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/23 "2008-09-14T01:33:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re comparing Jane Fonda, a traitor who went to Vietnam and allowed them to use her for propaganda, to an imaginary Red Cross worker? Besides using a strawman to make a point you’ve insulted the Red Cross. :dubious: The Red Cross needs no help from me. I have very little respect for that outfit after the earthquake here in '64. Jane Fonda is only a traitor by your definition and all those others who love to hate her. Let me guess: you hate Hillary Clinton also, right? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/24 "2008-09-14T05:59:34Z")
I am glad **Chefguy** has gotten over HJ. Good for him and that is his right. Many others have not and feel that the government was gutless in letting her get by with it. That is their right also. Any position is fine IMO except for putting down or attacking the soldiers that had to do the fighting. They are not at fault. And over our history, they are the reason that all these different positions can be held here. Isn’t that great? **Always remember and never forget:** _A critic is someone who never goes to the battle, yet who afterwards comes out shooting the wounded._ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/25 "2008-09-14T07:01:31Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The Red Cross needs no help from me. I have very little respect for that outfit after the earthquake here in '64. Jane Fonda is only a traitor by your definition and all those others who love to hate her. Let me guess: you hate Hillary Clinton also, right? OK, just to recap, you DON’T like the Red Cross, which is an organization designed to help people in need, but you have no problem with Jane Fonda’s propaganda support for a communist regime that has just been a stellar success since the end of the war. Giving aid to the enemy is the walking definition of the term traitor. Trying to imply that I have subverted the definition to fit my needs is intellectually dishonest on your part. And how you managed to insert Hillary Clinton into this conversation and then accuse me of hating her is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/26 "2008-09-14T07:19:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, just to recap, you DON’T like the Red Cross, which is an organization designed to help people in need, but you have no problem with Jane Fonda’s propaganda support for a communist regime that has just been a stellar success since the end of the war. The Red Cross is a large organization that has been so mismanaged it is pathetic. Look at how many heads they have churned through. Look at the mismanagement. Look at the waste and incompetence. Jane Fonda is one individual and, even married to Ted Turner, doesn’t have the resources that the Red Cross wastes on themselves. As for the Vietnamese “communist” regime, have you been to Vietnam in the last 5 years? They are doing quite well, so much so that American corporations like Intel and Microsoft want to set up factories and do business there. They are forging ahead on the Chinese model while we are asleep at the switch. Read “Vietnam Today” by David Lamb. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/27 "2008-09-14T07:40:07Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > The Red Cross is a large organization that has been so mismanaged it is pathetic. Look at how many heads they have churned through. Look at the mismanagement. Look at the waste and incompetence. Jane Fonda is one individual and, even married to Ted Turner, doesn’t have the resources that the Red Cross wastes on themselves. > > As for the Vietnamese “communist” regime, have you been to Vietnam in the last 5 years? They are doing quite well, so much so that American corporations like Intel and Microsoft want to set up factories and do business there. They are forging ahead on the Chinese model while we are asleep at the switch. > > Read “Vietnam Today” by David Lamb. OK, I’ll bite, how does the efficiency of the Red Cross translate to a comparison to a traitor? What snippet of logic are you drawing from to make that connection? Seriously, how do you draw a line between the two? And on a side note, the communist government of Vietnam is not a monument to self rule. The fact that Intel wants cheap labor is hardly an accomplishment. All that means is that they’ve managed to undercut Chinese labor. BFD. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/28 "2008-09-14T07:46:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, I’ll bite, how does the efficiency of the Red Cross translate to a comparison to a traitor? What snippet of logic are you drawing from to make that connection? Seriously, how do you draw a line between the two? > > And on a side note, the communist government of Vietnam is not a monument to self rule. The fact that Intel wants cheap labor is hardly an accomplishment. All that means is that they’ve managed to undercut Chinese labor. BFD. I didn’t bring up the Red Cross. Apparently it was you who did. It looks like you know hardly anything about the Red Cross or Vietnam. Have you been to Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/29 "2008-09-14T10:40:15Z")
He didn’t bring up the Red Cross. It was **Chefguy** , trying to imply that the Red Cross’s actions in wartime fall under a reasonable definition of “aiding the enemy”. But that’s ridiculous. And I, also, have to ask what the efficiency of the Red Cross has got to do with anything. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/30 "2008-09-14T15:59:26Z")
Since the OP has been answered, let’s close this one. Any further nits to pick, take it to either GD or the Pit. **samclem** GQ moderator ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/31 "2008-09-14T16:03:33Z")
The factual question appears to have been answered. I’m going to close this thread without prejudice to someone starting a new thread in the appropriate forum. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377/32 "2008-09-14T16:04:10Z")
Simul-locked! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jane-fonda-traitor-e-mail-true-or-not/463377.md?page=1)