# Janet Jackson's nipple flash -- race-based blame? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532 "2004-03-26T07:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/1 "2004-03-26T07:55:55Z")
Just to change the discussion _du jour_ from the snowballing Clarke/Bush/Rice controversy… In his [blog entry](http://www.peterdavid.net/) for 3/23/2004, author Peter David talks about a portion of his weekly newsletter column that got snipped without him knowing about it. The essay of the week was about censorship and Howard Stern, but the portion that got axed drifts over to the Janet Jackson/Justin Timberlake halftime show bru-ha-ha, and raises an (IMO, anyway) interesting theory: > [@Peter David](#): > > Anyway, I find myself wondering … how much of this stems from her being Black?.. I’m starting to think that maybe the color of her skin is the major point of demarcation. Lawsy lawsy, a Black woman is overtly displaying her sexuality. Where does she get off? Black women can have equality, sure…but only on our terms, and when we’re ready to give it to them (such as when the predominantly white voting body of the Academy Awards bestows an Oscar on Halle Berry.) But if they’re aggressive about it, or get in people’s faces about it, then it’s time to call out the defenders of decency and beat them back into submission before it’s too late. Make damned sure Janet Jackson doesn’t show up on the Grammys (although Justin Timberlake, whose inability to grip the correct section of the costume was very likely responsible for the incident, it’s okay for him to be there. The white guy can show his face; the Black woman has to hide.) > > You think I’m wildly off base about this? Think there’s not the slightest kernel of truth? > > Consider this, and give yourself a very honest answer… > > If it had been Snoop Doggy Dog ripping the blouse off Christine Aguilera… > > Do you think the skew of the subsequent coverage would have been on a white woman’s breast? > > Or would it have been on a helpless white woman being sexually assaulted by a Black man? So, what say you, fellow Dopers? If the Superbowl halftime scandal involved a black male celebrity ripping a blouse off a white female celebrity, would the ensuing outrage be the same as what we got? Or would most folks be hurling brickabats at the black guy glamorizing sexual assault on a white woman? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/2 "2004-03-26T13:27:59Z")
Justin Timberlake had far less comment thrown against him than did Janet Jackson, and her apology was demanded far more often than his. That says it all. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/3 "2004-03-26T13:43:21Z")
Well, it was Janet’s, not JT’s, nipple that caused all the controversy, and it seems the bulk of the public believes that it was her idea (implying that JT wasn’t clever enough to have thought this up on his own). So, if anything, sounds like empowerment of women of color, and the assumption that JT should get a greater share of the blame is borderline racist. Or something. Actually, I prefer my thinking on the subject, which that the incident was of no great significance. ---
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/4 "2004-03-26T13:45:33Z")
It was based on her nastiness – of all the hot women (the dancers, the cheerleaders) out there for the show we had to see her old, saggy breast. If it were Beyonce who did it I think there would have been far fewer complaints. The one time we get to see a bare breast on broadcast TV and it had to be hers (ugh). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/5 "2004-03-26T13:55:11Z")
Yes, if it had been Snoop-on-Christina Aguilera, the story would have been totally different. But keep in mind that there’s the race thing, but also the age difference. Justin Timberlake totally removed himself from Janet’s shamelight. Despite the fact that he 1) was the one who said: “I’m going to get you naked by the end of this song” and 2) actually exposed the breast, he has managed to make _himself_ the victim. It pissed a lot of people off, myself included. You can’t be risque one moment and then choirboy the next. Well, apparently _he_ can. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/6 "2004-03-26T14:01:58Z")
I think that Janet was telling the truth–the leather bustier panel was supposed to come off, not the red camisole too. However, the fact that she was wearing her nipple jewelry like that made it look to me like she planned to expose the whole thing all along. I think that’s why people blamed her more initially. Never thought of the race angle. Never heard it mentioned by anybody else. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/7 "2004-03-26T14:11:04Z")
Racism may be playing a part here, but I can’t support David’s hypothesis that the American public would be shocked by a black woman “overtly displaying her sexuality”. (I also don’t see how exposing yourself at the Super Bowl is being aggressive about equality. It’s not like we see white women’s bare breasts at every other halftime show.) If anything, American pop culture has difficulty treating black women as anything _other_ than 1) sex objects or 2) hired help. Or better yet, both. It’s _this_ racist idea that may be the real problem. Of course Janet Jackson is to blame, you know how _those people_ are, with their animal-like sexual habits! But Justin Timberlake is a nice white boy, so it can’t be _his_ fault. Then again, Jackson may have attracted the lion’s share of the blame just because she’s far more famous than Timberlake. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/8 "2004-03-26T14:28:53Z")
I think that the race argument is just plain ludicrous. Since this is GD, let’s look at the possibilities. 1) They both knew what was going to happen. 2) Neither knew what was going to happen (wardrobe malfunction). 3) JJ knew, TL didn’t. 4) TL knew, JJ didn’t. The line: “I’m going to have you naked by the end of this song.” was a song lyric. They both knew which song they’d be singing and both could’ve used this for whatever they might have had planned. At the end of it all, JJ apologized and admitted that she planned the whole thing. TL, at first, claimed that it was a wardrobe malfunction. Now, why would he say this only to have JJ apologize and admit fault later? If it was planned by both, wouldn’t they have a consistent story? Thus, I believe that she knew and he didn’t. So, clearly she deserves all of the blame and he doesn’t. Of course, in the grand scheme of things, it shouldn’t have been a big deal. People could have just had a few quick words about it, and then forgot about it. But that’s not what happened, and perhaps people in this country should lighten up a little. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/9 "2004-03-26T14:44:56Z")
> [@Jackknifed Juggernaut](#): > > I think that the race argument is just plain ludicrous. I agree, whole-heartedly. I think that some people are just quick to draw the race card. To these people I say: sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. > [@monstro](#): > > Yes, if it had been Snoop-on-Christina Aguilera, the story would have been totally different. But keep in mind that there’s the race thing, but also the age difference. How can you even claim something like this? I really do fail to see how it would have been _any_ different. Last time I checked, a whole bunch of parents were complaining about Britney Spears being “too sexual”, and exposing a little too much skin. This leads me to think-- hey, race ain’t got nuthin’ to do with it. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/10 "2004-03-26T15:14:51Z")
Is Peter David white or black? Given the drivel that I read from him, if he is black he would seem to be in the same category as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, et al. Those who are professionally offended and feel it is in their financial best interest to foment discontent between the races. If he is white, then he is apparently pretty far left and afflicted with the institutional white guilt that actually patronizes african americans instead of uplifting them. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/11 "2004-03-26T15:38:31Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > How can you even claim something like this? I really do fail to see how it would have been _any_ different. > LilShieste Use a little imagination. Do you honestly believe that Snoop Doggy Dog would have gotten the same pass that Justin Timberlake did? You don’t have to be a race-baiter (hate this phrase) to suspect there would be differences in treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/12 "2004-03-26T15:55:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Use a little imagination. Do you honestly believe that Snoop Doggy Dog would have gotten the same pass that Justin Timberlake did? > > You don’t have to be a race-baiter (hate this phrase) to suspect there would be differences in treatment. No. But Luther Vandross would’ve certainly gotten an even better pass than T’lake. What’s your point? Snoop does “Girls Gone Wild” videos and consistently raps about “bitches and ho’s”. So, once again, the race argument is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/13 "2004-03-26T15:58:32Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Use a little imagination. Do you honestly believe that Snoop Doggy Dog would have gotten the same pass that Justin Timberlake did? > > You don’t have to be a race-baiter (hate this phrase) to suspect there would be differences in treatment. I can _kind of_ see where you’re coming from… but in response I would ask: “Do you think Eminem would have gotten the same pass that Justin Timberlake did?” I really (really) doubt it. So maybe there’s an argument that revolves around former-boy-band members getting a little better “treatment” than rappers or something… but I’d say we’re really trying to make something out of nothing then. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Tokyo\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@Tokyo\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tokyo_Mann)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/14 "2004-03-26T17:44:49Z")
> [@Jackknifed Juggernaut](#): > > At the end of it all, JJ apologized and admitted that she planned the whole thing. TL, at first, claimed that it was a wardrobe malfunction. Now, why would he say this only to have JJ apologize and admit fault later? If it was planned by both, wouldn’t they have a consistent story? > > Thus, I believe that she knew and he didn’t. So, clearly she deserves all of the blame and he doesn’t. I can’t agree. Going back to the possibility that they both planned it, but it blew up more than they expected. She blinked, he didn’t. I’d vote for stupid for both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/15 "2004-03-26T18:04:02Z")
> [@Tokyo\_Mann](#): > > …but it blew up more than they expected. What does this mean? I know that JJ said this, but I don’t understand. Does she mean that her nipple wasn’t supposed to be exposed in that manner? If so, then it was indeed a wardrobe malfunction. If not, then did she think that the camera wouldn’t catch it? Because this would just be an error in judgment. But I’m just not clear what she meant by saying that it went further than they expected. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/16 "2004-03-26T18:40:43Z")
I think the debate has gotten muddled: 1.) I don’t think the outrage at Janet Jackson is race-based. I really think that a lot of people don’t think of Janet Jackson’s race at all, to tell you the truth. 2.) As to the question of whether things would be handled differently if Snoop Doggy Dogg had done it, that might have provoked a different response, and it might have had a racial component to it. I’m amazed that Timberelake got away as unscathed as he did, to tell the truth. 3.) In any case, there would have been an uproar no matter who did it. I can play with the casting as well – if Justin Timberlake had torn off the covering on Christine Aguilera, there _still_ would have been an uproar, of that I have no doubt. 4.) This whole incident gave me an excuse for a new sig. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/17 "2004-03-26T19:08:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _how much of this stems from her being Black?_ Janet Jackson is BLACK?! Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/18 "2004-03-26T19:09:59Z")
I spend my fair amount of time on IRC channels, forums, and other mediums where people are far more free with their words than they are in public/in real life - and I have never once heard anyone upset because she is black. I have heard, however, plenty upset because she is old and saggy, and many desires that she had done this when she was younger. If anything, the question is not one of racial discrimination - it is one of _sexual_ discrimination. The same public bias that allows a “loose” woman to be a “whore” and a “loose” man to be “normal.” Justin escaped notice not because he is white - he escaped notice because he is a man. In the public mind, it is **Janet** ’s boobie and **Janet** ’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/19 "2004-03-27T03:48:04Z")
Trying to play the race card in this case is simply silly. The whole half-time show stunk. The stink was highlighted by JJ’s boob flop. The abundant criticism is justified. The whole opening ceremony was great. The greatness was highlighted by BK’s performance. The abundant praise is justified. No evidence of racism here. Move along, people. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janet-jacksons-nipple-flash-race-based-blame/236532/20 "2004-03-27T04:55:03Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Is Peter David white or black? > > Given the drivel that I read from him, if he is black he would seem to be in the same category as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, et al. Those who are professionally offended and feel it is in their financial best interest to foment discontent between the races. > > If he is white, then he is apparently pretty far left and afflicted with the institutional white guilt that actually patronizes african americans instead of uplifting them. Oh **Evil One** you have captured it beautifully. We are now living in the Age of the Whiner, when people stalk about in every walk of life eagerly searching for opportunities to be offended. If they don’t have any serious injustices to fight against, they’ll pick something completely harmless and rant about how racist it is. Ye gods people. Grow up. Get a sense of humor. Find a _real_ cause to get wrapped up in.