# Janice Rand's hair **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009 "2018-05-11T20:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/41 "2018-05-12T15:17:00Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Here’s a [better pic of (TOS) T’Pau](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/T%27Pau?file=T%27Pau%2C_2267.jpg); I’m pretty sure that’s hair and not a helmet. 😉 I’d thought that was a hat. Celia Lovsky was in many of the 1960 television programs that I have been watching lately. Wagon Train, Have Gun Will Travel, Johnny Stacatto, Richard Diamond and Riverboat. She is said by IMDB to have used the Vulcan hand sign before Star Trek, but she was unable to hold her fingers apart, and had help off screen as T’Pau. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/42 "2018-05-12T15:21:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Those Vulcan helmets, as do the Romulan ones in _The Enterprise Incident_ save money on pointed ears. “Balance of Terror.” In “TEI,” hardly any of the ones we saw wore helmets. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/43 "2018-05-12T17:32:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And [T’Pring](http://payload310.cargocollective.com/1/14/477743/8518362/amoktimehd396_o.jpg) had a comparably elaborate 'do. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yeah, and there’s [Kelinda](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kelinda) in _By Any Other Name_. But there’s still plenty whose hair wouldn’t raise any eyebrows, either. Lots of women from alien cultures had deliberately weird hairstyles. Elaborate hairstyles on the crew of a space ship seem more out of place, and out of keeping with modern military forces. Of course, this is a navy where female crew members wore miniskirts [with matching panties](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/123928/female-uniforms-and-colored-panties-in-star-trek-tos) and calf-high boots with heels. (I always wondered what the point was of wearing boots, for both men and women, on a starship.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/44 "2018-05-12T17:47:12Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …(I always wondered what the point was of wearing boots, for both men and women, on a starship.) I believe that the uniforms came from a NASA study. I do not know if they studied landing parties without space suits. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/45 "2018-05-12T20:02:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe that the uniforms came from a NASA study. I do not know if they studied landing parties without space suits. From _ **TMoST** _: “No matter how many times NASA described the outfit of the future, it always sounded like long underwear… [A] community of 430 people, working closely together, would not ignore esthetics. Thus, [the production crew] took the basic idea of long underwear and added color and style.” From the series format: “The Star Trek format allows production-budget practicality … [by minimizing] special effects and process by establishing simplified equipment and methods (stet weapons, no space suits, etc.).” And: "Excerpted from the orders to Captain Robert T. April: … VI. Consistent with the limitations of your vessel and equipment, you will confine your landings and contacts to Class ‘M’ planets approximating Earth-Mars conditions." ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/46 "2018-05-12T20:43:21Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > From _ **TMoST** _: “No matter how many times NASA described the outfit of the future, it always sounded like long underwear… [A] community of 430 people, working closely together, would not ignore esthetics. Thus, [the production crew] took the basic idea of long underwear and added color and style.” Of course the esthetics sense of the 23rd century people in that show would map to that of 1966 Middle America… One can imagine the stylistic/artistic license logic consideration around the boots and the flared pants, to lend a bit of a swashbuckler vibe - considering that the top was a mere pullover. However while in the pilots the women wore similar long pants and boots, by the time the show went into production the future esthetics had swug in the direction of the microminiskirt and I’m sure that the group at the meeting where that decision was made was _very_ diverse 😉 (BTW the “matching panties”, but of course they’d match, this is a uniformed service! 😛 Or else the female uniform is actually a leotard, with a short-skirted overtunic) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/47 "2018-05-12T21:09:07Z")
What is TMoST? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/48 "2018-05-12T21:13:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What is TMoST? Technical Manual of Star Trek? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/49 "2018-05-12T21:23:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What is TMoST? > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Technical Manual of Star Trek? _The Making of Star Trek_, if I had to guess. And yeah, the original _Star Trek_ doesn’t look like the 23rd Century. It looks like what the 1960s thought the 23rd Century would look like. In 50 years, I suspect our current visions of the future will be just as dated. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/50 "2018-05-12T21:23:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What is TMoST? “The Making of Star Trek” by Stephen Whitfield. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/51 "2018-05-12T23:18:45Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > From _ **TMoST** _: “No matter how many times NASA described the outfit of the future, it always sounded like long underwear… [A] community of 430 people, working closely together, would not ignore esthetics. Thus, [the production crew] took the basic idea of long underwear and added color and style.” The uniforms did mostly look very comfortable. The men’s uniforms uniforms look like pajamas, and the women’s like shorty nightgowns (I suppose those would be uncomfortable mainly because you would always have to worry about bending over and showing your panties). That’s why the boots look so incongruous. At least for shipboard wear, house slippers would be more appropriate. On the International Space Station, they just go around in their stocking feet. Of course, they’re weightless. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/52 "2018-05-12T23:46:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And [T’Pring](http://payload310.cargocollective.com/1/14/477743/8518362/amoktimehd396_o.jpg) had a comparably elaborate 'do. I always thought the shorter, more practical hairdos for female Vulcans in the 24th and 22nd centuries made more sense. If it wasn’t for Saavik, I would argue that the long fancy hair was an in-universe ceremonial wig, hearkening back to the traditions of the past. T’Pau’s elaborate hair definitely looks entirely like a wig. Parts of it look more like cords than hair. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/53 "2018-05-13T00:16:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If it wasn’t for Saavik, I would argue that the long fancy hair was an in-universe ceremonial wig, hearkening back to the traditions of the past. Saavik was half Romulan. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/54 "2018-05-13T00:20:48Z")
> [@The making of Star Trek](#): > > "No matter how many times NASA described the outfit of the future, it always sounded like long underwear… The TOS uniforms were fine. Maybe the pants were at bit silly, but not too bad. On the other hand, \*The Motion Picture \*ignored the quote above and designed new uniforms that looked _exactly_ like long underwear. > [@The making of Star Trek](#): > > "Excerpted from the orders to Captain Robert T. April: > > … VI. Consistent with the limitations of your vessel and equipment, you will confine your landings and contacts to Class ‘M’ planets approximating Earth-Mars conditions." Earth-Mars. Ha! Sounds like science fiction in “The Martian Chronicles” era. The planet of canals. And Spock for a very short time in his character evolution as having come from Mars. I’d love to see Kirk land on a Mars-like planet without a suit. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/55 "2018-05-13T00:32:32Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Saavik was half Romulan. That’s debatable, as the only scene where this was established was cut. It also doesn’t help because Romulans in those centuries also had the shorter hair. It just adds in that female Romulan Commander (unnamed in canon) to the mix. What does allow me to fanwank it is that she was apparently studying Human responses, trying to understand them. That might allow her to adopt Human hair standards. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/56 "2018-05-13T00:33:36Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The TOS uniforms were fine. Maybe the pants were at bit silly, but not too bad. On the other hand, \*The Motion Picture \*ignored the quote above and designed new uniforms that looked _exactly_ like long underwear. > > Earth-Mars. Ha! Sounds like science fiction in “The Martian Chronicles” era. The planet of canals. And Spock for a very short time in his character evolution as having come from Mars. I’d love to see Kirk land on a Mars-like planet without a suit. :eek: The moon has a population by that point. It’s very possible Mars does, too. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/57 "2018-05-13T00:38:47Z")
Yeah, ST,TMP had [Ilia, who made total baldness look hot.](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=616&ei=hYj3WsujMue-jwSPq7jIAQ&q=star+trek+the+motion+picture+ilia&oq=Star+Trek+The+motion+picture&gs_l=img.1.7.0l10.5078.20100.0.24900.28.14.0.14.14.0.91.847.14.14.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.28.914....0.ppJnfej-EIU) The movie sucked, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/58 "2018-05-13T00:42:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The moon has a population by that point. It’s very possible Mars does, too. Meh, I believe Riker mentions that the moon population lives under a large dome. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/59 "2018-05-13T01:09:04Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Yeah, ST,TMP had [Ilia, who made total baldness look hot.](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=616&ei=hYj3WsujMue-jwSPq7jIAQ&q=star+trek+the+motion+picture+ilia&oq=Star+Trek+The+motion+picture&gs_l=img.1.7.0l10.5078.20100.0.24900.28.14.0.14.14.0.91.847.14.14.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.28.914....0.ppJnfej-EIU) Have you been without female companionship for some time? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009/60 "2018-05-13T01:15:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Lots of women from alien cultures had deliberately weird hairstyles. For instance, I recall Deela from “Wink of an Eye” having a beehiveesque bun in her long hair. We see her combing it in Kirk’s quarters after it got mussed… somehow or other. :dubious: 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/janice-rands-hair/814009.md?page=4)