# Japan and technology. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258 "2020-02-20T20:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/21 "2020-02-21T19:37:54Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > They are still used because the other alternatives don’t provide the required functions that the fax machines do. If they are still used because they are the only option available, to me that means they are not outdated. The technology itself still is outdated. There’s no real functionality that cannot be replicated or improved with more modern alternatives. They’re still used in healthcare due to HIPAA requirements and a lingering (sometimes confirmed) fear that other electronic modes of data transfer can be less secure. There’s no real functionality benefit of fax machines over alternatives but regulatory requirements and security concerns are very real on their own. And now, decades on, simple inertia becomes increasingly difficult to overcome. At the end there’s also no technology reason modern alternatives couldn’t be used - like a server that mimics the functions of a fax machine and internally converts pdf (or doc or whatever) to a fax signal. My home printer basically does that and can even send it over a phone line. There’d be added value from the things an actual computer could do to those documents before sending. But that would require changes to relevant regulation (and interpretation of that regulation) and perhaps also some extra guarantees on encryption and data security. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/22 "2020-02-21T19:43:01Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Does a technology become “outdated” as soon as a better alternative becomes available? Is it “outdated” even when 40% of households still use it? Are land lines “outdated” in the US? 1. Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/23 "2020-02-21T19:47:15Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > In what way? They aren’t being used due to nostalgia. They aren’t still in use due to all these facilities refusing to upgrade to a more modern technology. They are still used because the other alternatives don’t provide the required functions that the fax machines do. If they are still used because they are the only option available, to me that means they are not outdated. I think I see the problem. I think you’re parsing “outdated” as meaning “useless”. It means just what you alluded to – that another option(s) are widely available and considered by most to be an upgrade. Many people can name several pieces of outdated technology they own. For listening to music, I prefer my mp3 player and wired headphones to using a phone and Bluetooth headphones for various personal reasons. My Nintendo 3ds fulfills it’s intended purpose very well (something to throw in my bag for long flights), but it’s been outdated since the switch was released, and of course no new games are made for it. Sent from my Redmi 5A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/24 "2020-02-21T19:49:59Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > :dubious: What functionality is a fax machine uniquely able to provide? It is more secure than an email because it only travels on the telephone network instead of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/25 "2020-02-21T19:54:39Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > 1. Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes. Stole my answer. And that is speaking as an older gentleman( well…older man, anyway )who still has a landline, reads paper newspapers and uses CDs to listen to music. Even fired up the old Blu-ray the other day for nostalgia’s sake ;). Doesn’t mean that earlier technology is fully obsolete. It may just be obsolescent. Like message boards. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/26 "2020-02-21T22:20:55Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > When **Mrs. ToKnow** lived in Japan for a while in the 90s, one of the things she noticed was that every time a new cell phone model came out (almost monthly to hear her tell it today), you could buy the previous model for (IIRC) either 1 Yen or 1 dollar. Either way, ridiculously cheap. It was pretty similar in the US in the early 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/27 "2020-02-22T00:48:06Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Warning** > > Attack the post, not the poster. You have a valid point here. You can easily make it without attacking the poster. > > Since this is in effect calling someone ignorant, this is an official warning for a personal attack/personal insults outside of the Pit. In what way is saying “You personally may be smart” an insult? Since you clearly cannot tell what is an insult and what is not, let me spell it out for you– You are an incredibly stupid, ignorant person. You are far too stupid to be a moderator. This is an official insult directed at you as a person. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/28 "2020-02-22T01:08:38Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Since you clearly cannot tell what is an insult and what is not, let me spell it out for you– > You are an incredibly stupid, ignorant person. You are far too stupid to be a moderator. This is an official insult directed at you as a person. Stressed out about the sluggish sales at the fax machine company, huh? I dig it, man. Keep your chin up. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/29 "2020-02-22T01:10:27Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > In what way is saying “You personally may be smart” an insult? > > Since you clearly cannot tell what is an insult and what is not, let me spell it out for you– > You are an incredibly stupid, ignorant person. You are far too stupid to be a moderator. This is an official insult directed at you as a person. Did a fax machine break your heart or something? You seem a tad emotional about this. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/30 "2020-02-22T01:21:46Z")
I saw what (I think) is the same story on BBC news. We’d recently travelled to Japan just before this came out and I found it fascinating - how they can be some advanced in some ways, but so backwards in others: **Why is hi-tech Japan using cassette tapes and faxes?** > **[Why is hi-tech Japan using cassette tapes and faxes?](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-34667380)** > > Japan has a reputation for being obsessed by robots and electronic gadgets, but the technological reality in many offices is strikingly different. > [@](#): > > Japanese companies generally lag foreign companies by roughly five-to-10 years in adoption of modern IT practices… Those defending them by suggesting they’re using old technology because it has some “benefits” that presumably they see, but the rest of the world doesn’t (telephone lines being more secure?? :smack:) are 100% wrong: > [@](#): > > …[they’re] often conservative, if not downright Luddite Their continued use of outdated tech is not just some quaint cultural quirk that doesn’t matter, it’s having a huge productivity impact on the Japan and the Japanese economy and is a big issue for them: > [@](#): > > Japan’s non-manufacturing productivity, despite the long hours worked, is the worst in the OECD countries and roughly half that of the US. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/31 "2020-02-22T02:52:33Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > 1. Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes. So what do so many Americans keep using outdated technology such as land line phones, desktop computers, Blu-ray players, and magnetic strip credit cards? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/32 "2020-02-22T05:09:49Z")
I know someone who used a fax machine for years because he could not be bothered to learn how to type. I will bet you are thinking, now he probably transmits a photo snapshot of his writing, right? Nope. He was far too clever for that, and found a better, truly old-school solution: get someone else to take care of the entire thing. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/33 "2020-02-22T05:17:45Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > So what do so many Americans keep using outdated technology such as land line phones, desktop computers, Blu-ray players, and magnetic strip credit cards? Who cares? That’s completely irrelevant to whether or not those things are out dated. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/34 "2020-02-22T05:41:02Z")
Dude, no U.S. household has a separate dedicated fax machine, let alone 40% best case is some folks have printers at home with scan/fax capabilities. Health care uses fax. Considering the state of U.S. healthcare I can’t see how that’s a great endorsement. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As I understand it, the preference is because fax-to-fax communications is point-to-point, unlike email. Could someone explain what that means, please? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/35 "2020-02-22T05:48:19Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Could someone explain what that means, please? It means nothing unless you have a dedicated secure line. The public telephone network uses a bunch of exchanges and switches. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/36 "2020-02-22T11:46:24Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I am sick and tired of people sneering at fax machines and claiming that they’re outdated technology. The mental image of people sneering at facsimile machines is [priceless](https://images.app.goo.gl/7Dhxk54gfmBEQ1ud7). ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/37 "2020-02-22T11:51:09Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@Flyer](#): > > In what way is saying “You personally may be smart” an insult? Saying that at the beginning does not prevent saying that they “hold some mighty ignorant opinions” from being a personal insult/personal attack. You have been around here more than long enough to know that the rule is attack the post, not the poster. You chose to attack the poster. > [@Flyer](#): > > Since you clearly cannot tell what is an insult and what is not, let me spell it out for you– > You are an incredibly stupid, ignorant person. You are far too stupid to be a moderator. This is an official insult directed at you as a person. That will earn you a second warning, and given that you have had over a dozen warnings, most of which are for personal attacks or insults, that will also earn you a suspension while we discuss your posting privileges here. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/38 "2020-02-22T11:56:01Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > They’re still used in healthcare due to HIPAA requirements and a lingering (sometimes confirmed) fear that other electronic modes of data transfer can be less secure. Just this week I had to confirm my income from Pfizer so I could continue to get one of its drugs without a copay that was half my income. The form to fill out was one of those fill in the blanks .pdfs but it and the supporting documents had to be mailed or faxed. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/39 "2020-02-22T13:52:37Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Did a fax machine break your heart or something? > > You seem a tad emotional about this. Do you know what it’s like to desperately want to connect with someone, but hear only angry screeching on the other end of the line whenever you call? To know that whatever you say, no matter what you put into the relationship, it will soon become a flat, faded version of what it once was? To want so badly to share something _right now_ because it just can’t wait—and try as you might to modulate your feelings, you wonder if your partner will even be able to decipher the meaning of your words? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/40 "2020-02-22T14:05:19Z")
I would presume convenience is a factor with faxing in the medical field. They have the machines to do it, and those machines can do it all automatically. You put the sheet in, use the built-in phonebook to call the right place, and it gets sent. I am unaware of a machine that automates the scan/email process to this extent. You usually have to create an email, scan it in, add your own text, and then send it. Thus, when you deal with a lot of documents to be scanned and you already have fax machines, it makes sense to me that these are used. It’s only recently I’ve seen this changing. I also don’t agree with you guys’ definition of obsolete. It doesn’t just mean that a superior technology exists. That new technology has to be widespread and the old technology waning. For example, the VP9 video codec (used on, say, YouTube) is not obsolete simply because the superior AP1 exists. That said, VP8 is obsolete, because it is barely ever used anymore. This isn’t true of h.264 vs h.265 as the former is still ubiquitous, though the latter is used for anything above 1080p. By my definition. I would argue that, in general, fax machines are obsolete, but not in certain fields like medicine where they still have not been widely replaced with superior technologies. The medical field hangs behind on upgrading because of the need to establish stricter requirements than most people when importing new technologies. And, when they do upgrade, the medical side gets priority, not the administrative side. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258.md?page=3)