# Japan and technology. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258 "2020-02-20T20:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/61 "2020-02-25T04:40:19Z")
Thanks! I fixed it within the edit window, but still, I appreciate your doing that! ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/62 "2020-02-25T04:43:34Z")
One thing that will shock you if you come to Japan from a western nation is that offices and public facilities are maintained at the barest minimal cost. No one (but the top companies) wants to spend money on a nice office environment. Police stations (Koban) are a disaster, go inside one and have a look. The desks will all be 1960s era, wobbly, and peeling. Aluminum doors, just ugly. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/63 "2020-02-25T04:47:34Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > Thanks! I fixed it within the edit window, but still, I appreciate your doing that! No problemo. I just hope our “dearly” departed and others read that article. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/64 "2020-02-25T06:49:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am unaware of a machine that automates the scan/email process to this extent. Those giant copier/printer things in most offices offer a function often called “scan to email,” where you enter the recipient’s email address and hit “go”—and that’s it. Typically the recipient gets an email with the scanned pages as .pdf or .jpg attachments. > [@BigT](#): > > I also don’t agree with you guys’ definition of obsolete. Ok boomer. (I kid!) > [@BigT](#): > > I would argue that, in general, fax machines are obsolete, but not in certain fields like medicine where they still have not been widely replaced with superior technologies. The medical field hangs behind on upgrading because of the need to establish stricter requirements than most people when importing new technologies. This is a coherent argument, but I still disagree. The medical field (very generally) is a technological backwater populated by practitioners who fear change with the fiery intensity of a thousand burning suns. I once worked on a machine that would use real-time PCR (polymerase chain reaction, AKA gene amplification) to determine which strain of the flu virus a patient had. It would strip all identifying info from its records and upload them daily to the CDC. This would allow the CDC to track each season’s flu with unprecedented granularity and help guide the next season’s vaccine. My understanding is that this could save hundreds or (low) thousands of lives annually. (I’m no microbiologist or epidemiologist. I’m just repeating what I was told). Exactly zero physicians would have this thing in their office. It would correctly benefit patients and the public in general, but the fact that it sent data out of the office was a non-starter. IIRC, this company provided letters from the CDC stating that their machine didn’t constitute a HIPAA violation and even offered to indemnify physicians against regulatory violations, but they still got zero traction. The precautionary principle is self-contradictory, [widely misunderstood and overall does more harm than good](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852769/). Worse, it’s too often a fig leaf for intellectual laziness. Of course, this is just my opinion and nothing more. But I was icked out that so many physicians seemed to act directly against the best interests of their patients and against the best interests of public health simply to cover their butts.\* - Maybe I wasn’t given the whole story. Maybe physicians were objecting to other aspects of this company’s terms and conditions. But the people I worked with expressed incredulous frustration that fit l with the “physicians say ‘no’ reflexively” narrative. Given that evidence-based medicine is somehow distinct from medicine writ large—shouldn’t medicine generally _be_ evidence-based? Like, by default?—I hope you’ll forgive my skepticism of the the profession’s claimed rigor. That said, as flawed as western medicine may be, it’s a whole lot better than the other options in most respects. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/65 "2020-02-25T12:53:43Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > Those giant copier/printer things in most offices offer a function often called “scan to email,” where you enter the recipient’s email address and hit “go”—and that’s it. Typically the recipient gets an email with the scanned pages as .pdf or .jpg attachments. This, although I typically email the scanned document to myself - then I can send it to the final recipient from my own email account, which allows me to include a typed message (e.g. “dear Bob, here’s the kill list you asked for”) and have a digital record of having sent it. My email “sent” folder has _thousands_ of emails on it. I can’t imagine having a filing cabinet with thousands of fax confirmation sheets in it. What a waste of space and paper. ---
**Author:** ![road\_lobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@road\_lobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/road_lobo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/66 "2020-02-25T13:42:03Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > “The internet” is a term for all things interconnect through the world: at no point in time was the “phone network” not considered a part of the internet (except by you of course) “The internet” = tcp/ip. It’s not “all interconnected things.” > **[Internet protocol suite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite)** > > The Internet protocol suite, commonly known as TCP/IP, is a framework for organizing the set of communication protocols used in the Internet and similar computer networks according to functional criteria. The foundational protocols in the suite are the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP), the User Datagram Protocol (UDP), and the Internet Protocol (IP). Early versions of this networking model were known as the Department of Defense (DoD) model because the research and development were funded b... POTS was not a part of the internet for some time. > **[Plain old telephone service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_old_telephone_service)** > > Plain old telephone service (POTS), or plain ordinary telephone system, is a retronym for voice-grade telephone service employing analog signal transmission over copper loops. POTS was the standard service offering from telephone companies from 1876 until 1988 in the United States when the Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN) Basic Rate Interface (BRI) was introduced, followed by cellular telephone systems, and voice over IP (VoIP). POTS remains the basic form of residential and smal POTS ... lol internets ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/67 "2020-02-25T17:24:16Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > The gun is always loaded; the network is never secure. Faxes are grossly and inherently insecure for an array of reasons. I’ve heard physicians and attorneys claim that they used faxes because of their greater security, but those people were just parroting received wisdom. No set of procedures addresses the most glaring vulnerabilities of fax transmission. Here’s an article covering a number of them: > [Fax Machines Are Still Everywhere, and Wildly Insecure | WIRED](https://www.wired.com/story/fax-machine-vulnerabilities/) Did you read that article? The vulnerability was related to fax machines that are **also connected to a network** and the ability to **gain access to the network**. That has nothing to do with the discussion, which is about using stand alone fax machines for point to point communications through the pstn and the security of those communications. > [@](#): > > End-to-end encryption is what one wants. Sure encryption is great but it’s no guarantee, there are vulnerabilities everywhere (e.g. meltdown and spectre, or the recent MS cert issue, or the NSA and elliptic curve, etc. etc. etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/68 "2020-02-25T20:21:57Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > One thing that will shock you if you come to Japan from a western nation is that offices and public facilities are maintained at the barest minimal cost. No one (but the top companies) wants to spend money on a nice office environment. Police stations (Koban) are a disaster, go inside one and have a look. The desks will all be 1960s era, wobbly, and peeling. Aluminum doors, just ugly. One theory that I’ve seen is that the Japanese have a tradition of building things to be dispensable. Their solution to hurricanes wasn’t to build hurricane resistant houses, it was too build paper houses that you could tape back together after everything had been destroyed. Outside of temples, “build to last” isn’t their motto. Cheap parts, flimsy materials, cheap construction… I don’t know, there must be some form of upside to it. ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/69 "2020-02-26T01:34:53Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > Japan is often thought of as the country of cutting edge, futuristic technology, but that might not always be true. I recently read that lots of people in Japan still use fax machines and a lot of Japanese companies still use Geocities for web design. > > Can anyone who’s been to Japan or knows more about Japanese culture say if this is true or not? And if it’s true, why does Japan use outdated technology? Although declining every year, it’s true that many businesses still use fax machines, especially those in “traditional” fields of commerce such as banking and insurance. The main reasons bandied about for this are: 1. There is a clear record of a fax being sent and received. 2. It’s easy to mark up and add addendums on the fly 3. Easy to stamp with a personal seal (used in Japanese businesses everywhere) to indicate that senior member has seen it/approved it. 4. To prevent accidentally sending sensitive document to someone else and/or leak of sensitive information. 5. Easy to handle and store important documents in paper form. 6. It’s luddite-friendly in the sense that all you need is a phone line, a fax machine, and a writing utensil. As for companies using Geocities to design their website, I’ve never seen or heard of this. Geocities doesn’t even exist in Japan anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/70 "2020-02-26T12:03:52Z")
One of the features of the fax system is that the intended recipient (avoiding all discussion about security here), is a location. sometimes you want the information to go to a location. Mobile phones (and email) are more convenient because they go to the right person, wherever that person may be. Faxes are more convenient because they go to the right location, regardless of who’s working there at any given time. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/71 "2020-02-26T12:29:33Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Faxes are more convenient because they go to the right location, regardless of who’s working there at any given time. Assuming the sender uses the correct number. I once recieved multiple faxes from a local Highschool nurse. There was sensitive information, so I faxed back that they had the wrong number. Despite this, more faxes followed. Pissed off (they were using my paper and ink) I called the intended recipients landline (it was on the fax) of the student’s parent. I told them I was a stranger and read aloud information about the daughter’s birth control, etc. Mom was super pissed and contacted the school I assume, as I never got another fax from the nurse. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/72 "2020-02-26T13:57:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > One theory that I’ve seen is that the Japanese have a tradition of building things to be dispensable. Like by vending machine? 😛 > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Their solution to hurricanes wasn’t to build hurricane resistant houses, it was too build paper houses that you could tape back together after everything had been destroyed. > > Outside of temples, “build to last” isn’t their motto. Cheap parts, flimsy materials, cheap construction… I don’t know, there must be some form of upside to it. Yes. It’s almost as if most of the construction companies got together and made a collective decision to do things cheaply and still charge high prices… lol. (that probably happened) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/73 "2020-02-26T14:00:20Z")
> [@road\_lobo](#): > > “The internet” = tcp/ip. It’s not “all interconnected things.” > [Internet protocol suite - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite) > > POTS was not a part of the internet for some time. > [Plain old telephone service - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_old_telephone_service) > > lol internets If I may invoke my credentials as an ex-Computer Science prof here: You are exactly right. (Well, except for the lower-case “internet” thing. It’s a named item. So, “Internet” like “Mars”. Even my spell-checker agrees.) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/74 "2020-02-26T15:59:41Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Like by vending machine? 😛 [Oh, yeah.](https://www.wanderlust.co.uk/content/7-crazy-japanese-vending-machines/) Fun fact: I typed “crazy Japanese” into the Goog and it auto-filled “vending machines.” ---
**Author:** ![Mavis\_Topholese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@Mavis\_Topholese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavis_Topholese)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/75 "2020-02-26T17:21:22Z")
bear in mind it’s been 8 years since we were last in Japan, but the place is a fascinating mix of cutting-edge high-tech and kludgy “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” holdouts. Most businesses were cash only, bank ATMs would close after a certain time, we spent some time in Bic Camera in Suidobashi marveling at both the brand new 72" 3D HD TV (that was playing a new 3D CG movie based on a fifty year old property) and their selection of CD players, turntables, and cassette decks (!!). We wandered through Tsutaya in Shinjuku, gasping at the shelves and shelves and shelves and shelves of rental VHS. The guest PC in the lobby of our hotel was two or three Windows iterations old. Kanda-Jinboucho is filled with book publishers, new bookstores, used bookstores, all kinds of low-tech printed matter. And of course Tokyo smokes like it’s the 1980s! In conclusion, Japan is a land of contrasts. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258/76 "2020-02-26T18:15:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am unaware of a machine that automates the scan/email process to this extent. You usually have to create an email, scan it in, add your own text, and then send it. My office machines (Kyocera scanner/copier/printer thingamabobs) work literally the same for fax or email. You push “Send”, place your documents in the feeder, choose from a directory (which can be either email addresses, network folders, or fax numbers) and hit start. It scans the documents, emails them to any email addresses, places PDFs in any network folders, and sends a fax to any fax numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-and-technology/848258.md?page=3)