# Japan is considering purchase of F-35Bs. China's gonna be pissed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 27, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404 "2017-12-27T18:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/41 "2017-12-30T05:52:05Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > They are also equipped with IRST, which per sources can track '22 and '35 at ranges, certainly the USAF in Syria has avoided engaging Raptors with IRST equipped Su-35. Unless I’m being whooshed, numerous fighters worldwide have been equipped with IRST for decades. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/42 "2017-12-30T06:48:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Unless I’m being whooshed, numerous fighters worldwide have been equipped with IRST for decades. The last US fighter to have one built in was the TomCat. The F22 does not carry one. [The F-22 Stealth Fighter Has More Than One Weakness Compared to Modern Russian Warplanes | by War Is Boring | War Is Boring | Medium](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-f-22-stealth-fighter-has-more-than-one-weakness-compared-to-modern-russian-warplanes-6b9f3606b5b5) Super Hornets and I think F15 can carry an IRST pod on a hard point. The issue is not tha IRST are a new concept, it’s that newer IRST have greater tracking range (Russians claim 100 km). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/43 "2017-12-30T07:18:04Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The last US fighter to have one built in was the TomCat. The F22 does not carry one. [The F-22 Stealth Fighter Has More Than One Weakness Compared to Modern Russian Warplanes | by War Is Boring | War Is Boring | Medium](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-f-22-stealth-fighter-has-more-than-one-weakness-compared-to-modern-russian-warplanes-6b9f3606b5b5) That’s not correct. The F-35 has IRST built in. [https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/mfc/pc/f-35-lightning-ii-electro-optical-targeting-system-etos/mfc-f35-eots-pc.pdf](https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/mfc/pc/f-35-lightning-ii-electro-optical-targeting-system-etos/mfc-f35-eots-pc.pdf) > [@](#): > > F-35 Lightning II EOTS > > The Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) is the world’s first sensor that > combines forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and infrared search and track (IRST) > functionality. As an affordable, high-performance, lightweight, multi-function > system, EOTS provides precision air-to-air and air-to-surface targeting capability in > a compact package. > > Through EOTS, pilots have access to high-resolution imagery, automatic tracking, > IRST, laser designation and rangefinding, and laser spot tracking at greatly > increased standoff ranges. Integrated into the F-35 Lightning II’s fuselage with > a durable sapphire window, the low-drag, stealthy EOTS is linked to the aircraft’s > central computer through a high-speed fiber-optic interface. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/44 "2017-12-30T11:39:13Z")
So with this fancy IRST, there’s a way for the Su-35s to defeat the F-22 in a battle reliably, presumably with superior numbers of Su-35? I guess the armchair airforce generals on the internet would be pretty stoked if ww3 breaks out over Syria, because then at least we’d be able to find out how this does in the real world. I mean if the F-22’s stealth is so good you can’t shoot it down with a missile fired at long range (presumably shorter range IR missiles would work fine), all the U.S. air force has to do is track all the Su-35s, send the data to the F-22 fleet, and the pilots just have to make sure they stay out of the Su-35’s effective range, picking them off with long range missiles. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/45 "2017-12-30T13:30:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There has been some speculation that the Izzys may have already used their F-35s in combat, but I don’t think anything’s been confirmed yet. I wouldn’t be surprised - the IDF likes to battle-test new equipment as quickly as possible. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/46 "2017-12-30T13:41:58Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > So with this fancy IRST, there’s a way for the Su-35s to defeat the F-22 in a battle reliably, presumably with superior numbers of Su-35? > > I guess the armchair airforce generals on the internet would be pretty stoked if ww3 breaks out over Syria, because then at least we’d be able to find out how this does in the real world. > > I mean if the F-22’s stealth is so good you can’t shoot it down with a missile fired at long range (presumably shorter range IR missiles would work fine), all the U.S. air force has to do is track all the Su-35s, send the data to the F-22 fleet, and the pilots just have to make sure they stay out of the Su-35’s effective range, picking them off with long range missiles. The Russians claim they can track targets at 100 KM just fine and send a missile on its way with it. The Americans agree with the first assessment, claim the later is overstated and that any useful range is a lot less. Either way, one thing which is often forgotten about the F22 in all the gushing over its stealth characteristics, is the fact its designed to be a superior fighter at all ranges. Even in the WVR battle its more or less unbeatable, with is super manoeuvrability. I think only later models of the FLanker, i.e Su-35 are competitive at WVR, due to the thrust vector of the said fighters. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/47 "2017-12-30T17:19:43Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > So with this fancy IRST, there’s a way for the Su-35s to defeat the F-22 in a battle reliably, **presumably with superior numbers of Su-35**? … (bolding mine) The Russians only have like 68 Su-35S. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/48 "2017-12-30T17:35:28Z")
What’s the deployment in Syria? Flankers v Raptors. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/49 "2017-12-30T20:49:06Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What’s the deployment in Syria? Flankers v Raptors. I don’t know. Back on August 1, 2017, [this site](http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/13107/russias-air-base-in-syria-is-now-filled-with-advanced-multi-role-fighters) said: > [@](#): > > New satellite images show a big change in force structure at Russia’s Hmeymin airbase in Syria. … and six of Russia’s most advanced multi-role fighter aircraft, the Su-35S. The USAF seems to be rather circumspect about how many F-22s they have in the area (at least I couldn’t find a good source), but [this article from back in June](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/06/27/the-f22-syria-deconflicting-not-dog-fighting.html) offered _some_ insight: > [@](#): > > … > During the Navy’s TLAM strike, “serendipitously,” there were more F-22s in the area of responsibility because some were getting ready to fly home while others were coming in, according to Brig. Gen. Charles Corcoran, commander of the 380th Expeditionary Wing, which houses the F-22 mission in an undisclosed location for Operation Inherent Resolve, the Pentagon’s name for the anti-ISIS campaign. > > … > > Given the nature of how the U.S. air operation against ISIS has evolved in recent months, Shell acknowledged the possibility that commanders may decide to deploy more F-22s to the area of responsibility. > > “The airplanes that we have here, it’s not the maximum we can bring, we can bring more if directed,” he said. With more Raptors in theater, “they would obviously task us more,” he said. > > … ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404/50 "2017-12-31T02:55:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The Chinese have a lot more on station than 4 aircraft with a combat radius of 450 nm. Like J15 carrier fighters (radius 800nm), H6K bombers carrying CJ-10 missiles (range 1500 km), not to mention missile-armed submarines and surface ships, and a highly integrated space surveillance systems. > > In any war, the actual fighting on the Allied side would be done by almost exclusively. by the US Pacific Fleet. And any posturing as well. But what do you think will bring the US Pacific Fleet into the are for posturing/fighting? Perhaps one of the US allies getting themselves into a lot of trouble? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-considering-purchase-of-f-35bs-chinas-gonna-be-pissed/805404.md?page=2)