# Japan is mean! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853 "2004-05-12T20:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/1 "2004-05-12T20:42:33Z")
Read [this](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/10/MNGT16IQK81.DTL). Authorities in Japan are busting foriegners’ chops for being even a day late getting out with their visas. I know some of you dopers live there. What is it that makes some Japanese people have that attitude towards outsiders. Is this what the republicans in the US want for the States? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/2 "2004-05-13T03:15:11Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Read [this](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/10/MNGT16IQK81.DTL). > Authorities in Japan are busting foriegners’ chops for being even a day late getting out with their visas. > I know some of you dopers live there. What is it that makes some Japanese people have that attitude towards outsiders. Is this what the republicans in the US want for the States? > Peace, > mangeorge Yes, my little gaijin, they are mean. Here. Highlight the little smiley ;j Better? People are strange. But y’know what? I apologize in advance for this. But it’d be cool if they could get you on Iron Chef for the: Manchowder Battle! ---
**Author:** ![glilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@glilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glilly)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/3 "2004-05-13T04:07:28Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Read [this](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/10/MNGT16IQK81.DTL). > Authorities in Japan are busting foriegners’ chops for being even a day late getting out with their visas. > I know some of you dopers live there. What is it that makes some Japanese people have that attitude towards outsiders. Is this what the republicans in the US want for the States? > Peace, > mangeorge Japan’s pretty tough on crime. Overstaying a visa may not seem all that serious a crime, especially for tourists and students, but they make visa dates for a reason. Arbitrary reasons, but reasons. I’ll make damn sure to check my visa’s expiration date next time I go there, so in that way, the detention seems to have worked. Don’t feel too sorry for the guy. He got four free nights in Japan. Do you know how expensive hotels there are? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![glilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@glilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glilly)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/4 "2004-05-13T04:08:57Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Is this what the republicans in the US want for the States? No. We’d have to build a lot more jails. A LOT more. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/5 "2004-05-13T04:43:52Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > Japan’s pretty tough on crime. Overstaying a visa may not seem all that serious a crime, especially for tourists and students, but they make visa dates for a reason. Arbitrary reasons, but reasons. I’ll make damn sure to check my visa’s expiration date next time I go there, so in that way, the detention seems to have worked. Exactly. I’m certainly not enthusiastic about how people are treated in Japanese jails, but these guys broke the law. Getting an extension, or a grace period is easy, as long as you haul your ass to the nearest immigration office. I’m not sure if they were stupid or clueless but they should have known better. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/6 "2004-05-13T05:05:05Z")
You live/visit a foreign country at the sufferance of that government. It’s a privledge and not a right. Pay attention to your legal period of stay. After that it becomes illegal. Pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/7 "2004-05-13T06:33:39Z")
I can’t say I’m that upset about a guy who gets four days in jail for actually violating the law. What chafes, though, are the politicians and media wankers who are increasingly equating all foreigners with criminals. [Chinese here feel sting of prejudice](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040505f2.htm) [Kanagawa Gov. calls foreigners ‘sneaky thieves’](http://www12.mainichi.co.jp/news/mdn/search-news/903691/sneaky20thieves-0-1.html). Granted, he later claimed he didn’t mean _all_ foreigners, just those here on work and student visas (i.e., the ones who can’t vote). [[Tokyo Governor] Ishihara defends racist rant](http://www12.mainichi.co.jp/news/mdn/search-news/903691/rampaging20foreigners-0-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/8 "2004-05-13T23:53:03Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > I can’t say I’m that upset about a guy who gets four days in jail for actually violating the law. What chafes, though, are the politicians and media wankers who are increasingly equating all foreigners with criminals. > [Chinese here feel sting of prejudice](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040505f2.htm) > > [Kanagawa Gov. calls foreigners ‘sneaky thieves’](http://www12.mainichi.co.jp/news/mdn/search-news/903691/sneaky20thieves-0-1.html). Granted, he later claimed he didn’t mean _all_ foreigners, just those here on work and student visas (i.e., the ones who can’t vote). > > [[Tokyo Governor] Ishihara defends racist rant](http://www12.mainichi.co.jp/news/mdn/search-news/903691/rampaging20foreigners-0-1.html) This is what I’m talking about, the racial slant of the whole thing. My friend Ariel (a Fillipino) worked there for a while, at Japan’s behest, and he told me of the _very_ strong racial element of their attitude toward non-Japanese people. I don’t know how citizens are treated for such trifles, but the punishment \*\*and[.b] the stated reasons behind it seem kinda harsh to me. “Gaijin” is, by the way, a racist term. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/9 "2004-05-14T00:38:42Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Yes, my little gaijin, they are mean. Here. Highlight the little smiley ;j Everytime I do that trick, I hear that loud brass horn noise they used to play in WWII movies when the guys on a PT boat would spot a Japanese submarine. Incidentally, who is “gaijin” racist against? I thought it just meant, “anyone who ain’t Japanese.” ---
**Author:** ![RindaRinda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@RindaRinda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RindaRinda)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/10 "2004-05-14T01:05:22Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > This is what I’m talking about, the racial slant of the whole thing. My friend Ariel (a Fillipino) worked there for a while, at Japan’s behest, and he told me of the _very_ strong racial element of their attitude toward non-Japanese people. Sometimes Japan strikes me as a small town built to the scale of a nation. I don’t doubt that your friend, being Filipino, suffered while living here. I have heard quite a few belittling comments about non-Japanese Asians. Their image is worse than that of the white foreigner, except for maybe the whole stupid soccer hooligan hysteria. But to keep things in perspective, I don’t really have to worry about being dragged to death here, like I do in my home state. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how citizens are treated for such trifles, but the punishment **and** the stated reasons behind it seem kinda harsh to me. It seems harsh to me, too, especially in light of newspaper articles about the “rise in foreign crimes” and the[inform-on-suspicious-foreigners website](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040418a8.htm) (it may have been removed since April, but I’ve been out of the country). It seems to me that the government and the media is creating an aura of paranoia about foreigners. > [@](#): > > “Gaijin” is, by the way, a racist term. You may have opened a can of worms there. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/11 "2004-05-14T01:17:54Z")
“Those dang feriners are taking over”. Sort of like that, **Miller**. The term implies (assumes) a sense of superiority over the people it describes. I don’t think it’s always hateful. Americans aren’t a “race”. We don’t have an equivalent to Japanese, or German, or Chinese etc. I put the word “race” in quotes for a reason. Let’s not argue, ok? 😉 Do any of you know if immigration in the US has equivalent visa expiration policies? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/12 "2004-05-14T01:28:41Z")
Racism isn’t always that extreme, **RindaRinda**. Nowadays I, as a ‘white liberal’, probably have a slightly higher chance of being dragged to death (in your home state) than you do. Is being quite uncomfortable “suffering”? Sure, if it’s pervasive enough. I know. ---
**Author:** ![RindaRinda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@RindaRinda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RindaRinda)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/13 "2004-05-14T02:29:21Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Racism isn’t always that extreme, **RindaRinda**. Oh, I know racism isn’t always that extreme. I wasn’t being very clear in my post. Sometimes, I get _really_ fed up with the ignorance and petty prejudices I encounter here. I am Japanese-American, and sometimes I get dirty looks from older Japanese people when I’m with my white husband. I am tired of hearing “Amerika-jin” like it’s some kind of race, and getting doubtful looks when I say I’m American. And so on, and so on, and so on. The dragging comment is something I say to myself when I feel like cursing this place. > [@](#): > > Nowadays I, as a ‘white liberal’, probably have a slightly higher chance of being dragged to death (in your home state) than you do. I’ll one up you. I’m a liberal minority feminist, married to a Jew. Now who’s more likely to be dragged? 😉 > [@](#): > > Is being quite uncomfortable “suffering”? Sure, if it’s pervasive enough. I know. I call it suffering. The non-Japanese Asians I know aren’t too happy, although they recognize they have more economic opportunities here than in their home countries. Nevertheless, many of them feel isolated and lonely and belittled. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/14 "2004-05-14T08:04:36Z")
[This kind of incident at immigration](http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=1&id=298410), on the other hand, bothers me a great deal. “A Guinean man with a valid passport and visa was deported by immigration authorities after being refused entry into Japan and held in detention for one month, … authorities refused to allow him to enter Japan, saying they had “suspicions” about his travel purpose” ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/15 "2004-05-14T08:13:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Incidentally, who is “gaijin” racist against? I thought it just meant, “anyone who ain’t Japanese.” It litarally means “outsider”. Many foreigners resent that. You spend several years living here, make efforts to blend in society as best as you can and you’re still labeled an “outsider”. What “gaijin” is _not_, is derogatory. It’s never used as a direct insult, in the way the n-word might be. Some people end up being insulted by the connotations, though. Most of the time, it’s important to understand that when people use the word, no harm is meant. Still, enough people dislike the term that it’s best to avoid it. There are perfectly valid uses for “gaijin”, like: “I spent the evening with a bunch of trekkies, man, did I feel like a gaijin!” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/16 "2004-05-14T11:31:22Z")
I gotta agree with **jovan** on gaijin. It’s a neutral word, although many foreigners can resent the word and think it racist. Heck, you often get referred to in Japan as “gaijin-sama” when they don’t know your name. I think _anyone_ that has lived in Japan learns/experiences that one is an outsider at times if not all the time. Lord knows when I started my apartment search after getting my first real job and making $100k a year for a big name company, I got introduced to the nature of Japanese landlords and fucking real estate agents. I can’t believe that I didn’t go back one night and bust out all the windows of a real estate agent in Jiyugaoka. But you overstay your visa and government makes it a bad experience for you, then maybe you should pay attention to the laws of Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/17 "2004-05-14T11:41:06Z")
I started a similar thread that was based on these suspisions (and I’ve never even beed to Japan) Here, tke a look at [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254113&highlight=japanese+hate+americans) and check out some of the responses ☹ ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/18 "2004-05-14T23:23:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll one up you. I’m a liberal minority feminist, married to a Jew. Now who’s more likely to be dragged? Ok. I’m a little more extremely unlikely than you. But to experience overt racism? Yah, I’d say you are more likely than I am. Until I open my big mouth, at least. 😃 BTW; I’ll accept the opinions of those who have more exposure than I do, but the only times I’ve heard the term “gaijin” used it’s been accompanied by a backward tilt of the head and a sneer. However slight. Translated for me by a friend as we entered a (stand?) bar in Tokyo: “Oh shit, here come the gaijin”. Followed, in english by “Good evening, gentlemen”. Do I rememner the right word? Sounds kinda like “On-jeen”, or “Ah-jeen”, right? Been a while. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/19 "2004-05-15T13:26:28Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > BTW; I’ll accept the opinions of those who have more exposure than I do, but the only times I’ve heard the term “gaijin” used it’s been accompanied by a backward tilt of the head and a sneer. However slight. In **Starguard** ’s thread, you wrote this: > [@](#): > > My experiences in Japan, and Okinawa, are from '65 and '66. I was in the Navy. Was that the only time you were in Japan? If it was, you should know that the country has changed _a lot_ in the last 40 years. The times, they’re a changin’ man. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853/20 "2004-05-15T16:15:47Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > What “gaijin” is _not_, is derogatory. It’s never used as a direct insult, in the way the n-word might be. I agree it’s not racist. However it’s not a polite word either. It is casual at best, and can be offensive depending on context. _Gaikokujin_ is a more neutral or respectful term. Inicidentally, is it my imagination or is the term “zainichi” (“living in Japan”) turning into a racist term? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-is-mean/244853.md?page=2)