# Japan, you are hell fuckin' sloppy. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829 "2004-06-17T06:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/41 "2004-06-19T12:07:38Z")
Sure, concrete is nice. Maybe someday they will use some to make sidewalks in the residential areas. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/42 "2004-06-19T12:09:28Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Sure, concrete is nice. Maybe someday they will use some to make sidewalks in the residential areas. Yeah, I love how the sidewalks work here: walk two blocks on the sidewalk whoops gotta cross the street it’s now on the other side whoops gotta walk in the gutter now for a block or two oh goodie sidewalk again. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/43 "2004-06-19T17:52:03Z")
I’ve always loved Japan, although I (and every other American I knew who went there) was shocked by the dinginess. And that is the perfect word - dingy. On the other hand, the more densely populated areas of the U.S. are just as run-down. I’m thinking of the built-out inner suburbs of Los Angeles and San Francisco. Instead of injection-molded plastic bricks, the houses are made of solidified smog pasted over chicken wire (also known as stucco). I also noticed a great deal of dinge in Europe. In England, the backyards (sorry, gardens) seem to be used mainly as storage areas for broken furniture, and in Sicily, apparently your property tax is based on the outer appearance of your house, so none of the houses have been repaired since Garibaldi’s heyday. What I’m used to is the American Midwest - new houses on big lots far from the commercial bustle. Not saying it’s better, just what I’m used to. Almost everything else seems cramped and filthy. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/44 "2004-06-19T23:02:23Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > As for resale of homes, yes, it’s a problem. You have these oldsters sitting on $5M chunks of land in the middle of the city. Even after the taxes, they are going to be rich. But no, no–market mechanisms are not for them. They’ll blithely continue to live in their dump. I can’t dispute your other observations, as I have never lived in Japan – although I have certainly seen enough footage of it to know that I would find it a thoroughly depressing place to visit. I’ve heard PLENTY about the landfill-like conditions on Mount Fuji, which I have seen attributed to the difference between a shame culture and a guilt culture-- i.e., no guilt, no personal responsibilty for cleaning up after yourself. Sigh.) However, I am a little disturbed by the angry tone of this comment. What’s wrong with “oldsters” staying in their homes, regardless of market conditions? I don’t believe that old people have any kind of moral responsiblity to move to other housing to suit would-be homebuyers or remodellers. I’ve seen one or two people in the local newspaper here on Long Island, berating senior citizens for not moving out of their homes and getting their wrinkly asses down to the old people’s communities in Florida, thus leaving room for young families. Sure it screws up the housing market, but what’s the alternative? Logan’s Run? Frustrating as hell, no doubt. But hardly an impropriety. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/45 "2004-06-20T01:27:05Z")
We don’t call it sloppy here in the south… we call it lived in. YMMV of course. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/46 "2004-06-20T06:33:26Z")
> [@Tenar](#): > > What’s wrong with “oldsters” staying in their homes, regardless of market conditions? I don’t believe that old people have any kind of moral responsiblity to move to other housing to suit would-be homebuyers or remodellers. I’ve seen one or two people in the local newspaper here on Long Island, berating senior citizens for not moving out of their homes and getting their wrinkly asses down to the old people’s communities in Florida, thus leaving room for young families. Sure it screws up the housing market, but what’s the alternative? Logan’s Run? > > Frustrating as hell, no doubt. But hardly an impropriety. It’s not just that they don’t move, they don’t take care of their properties; they are content to have the whole neighborhood looking like shit. You’ve got to wonder what makes the market here so goofy, though. Everyone finds these 300k+ chunks of land to be expensive. My wife’s grandmother (who does take care of her house and land) is sitting on a plot worth millions, right near the station. I’m surprised developers are not banging on her door, trying to get her to sell. Which is it? If prime land is expensive, it’s worth giving a damn about. If no one gives a damn about it, why is it expensive? It’s not just the oldies–it’s a totally fucked, ass-backwards real estate market combined with a culture that does not know how to value and develop land properly. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/47 "2004-06-20T06:35:12Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > These stories about shoddy construction make me nervous. Don’t they have building codes meant to withstand earthquakes in Japan? It always breaks my heart when I hear about 6.5 earthquakes killing thousands of people in third world countries Like it was mentioned before, the building codes are actually very strict. The “shoddy” is only in the finishing. Structurally, most buildings are very sound (or are expected to be!). Hearing about the thousands of people who died in an earthquake is certainly heart-breaking. Hearing about the tens of thousands who _will_ die when “the big one” hits the place where you live is, well, surreal. I live on the edge of the Tokai area where, according to experts, the next big, big one is going to happen. Often newspapers carry articles about newly revised estimated death tolls. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/48 "2004-06-20T07:02:23Z")
Gotta say I’m amused by all the people who’ve never been there jumping in to say how wrong the OP is. > [@gobear](#): > > Here’s a joke for the Asia hands: > > Three diplomats are having dinner together at a restaurant after a meeting: a Japanese, a North Korean, and a South Korean. The waiter comes to take their orders, and says, “Excuse me, gentlemen, but we have no more beef today.” > > The North Korean guy asks, ‘What’s "beef?’" > > The Japanese guy says, “What’s ‘no more?’” > > And the South Korean asks, “What’s ‘excuse me?’” Dunno if three years in makes me a hand, but I sure got this … literally lol. > [@Kyla](#): > > Don’t they have building codes meant to withstand earthquakes in Japan? Yes. And in a related story, Mexican policemen are not allowed to take bribes. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/49 "2004-06-20T07:23:06Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Yes. And in a related story, Mexican policemen are not allowed to take bribes. I dunno. Strictly IME, earthquake-related codes are taken seriously around here. My school, for instance, is thinking of rebuilding one of our buildings because is passed the tests, but just barely. There _are_ buildings that aren’t so solid but they’re mostly older ones. Comparisons with Mexican policemen are not warranted IMO. [Here’s a lengthy article](http://www.hewett.norfolk.sch.uk/curric/NEWGEOG/Tectonic/Earth/Building.htm) about Hanshin earthquake damage and construction issues. I quote: > [@](#): > > comparative studies have suggested that newer Japanese mid- and high-rise buildings are comparable to or somewhat stronger than their counterparts in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/50 "2004-06-20T15:42:30Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Hearing about the thousands of people who died in an earthquake is certainly heart-breaking. Hearing about the tens of thousands who _will_ die when “the big one” hits the place where you live is, well, surreal. I live on the edge of the Tokai area where, according to experts, the next big, big one is going to happen. Often newspapers carry articles about newly revised estimated death tolls. I’m guessing you’re originally from a non-shaky place. I grew up in Northern California and that sort of news story sounds pretty ordinary to me. They’re always coming out with the new place the next big one will hit. Last best guess I remember hearing about is the Hayward Fault…which runs right through my hometown, where my parents still live. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/51 "2004-06-20T16:35:47Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I’m guessing you’re originally from a non-shaky place. I grew up in Northern California and that sort of news story sounds pretty ordinary to me. They’re always coming out with the new place the next big one will hit. Last best guess I remember hearing about is the Hayward Fault…which runs right through my hometown, where my parents still live. I think the unnerving part is that the government agencies have stopped saying “if an earthquake hits,” in favor of “when The Earthquake hits.” The government in general, and the LDP in particular, have a history of taking the Baghdad Bob approach to crisis management (“The pension system is in no danger whatsoever. You have absolutely no reason to worry about your future.”), so when they actually treat a problem as an concrete reality, people take notice. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/52 "2004-06-20T16:50:57Z")
Well, of course there’s going to be another earthquake. It’s Japan. Do you think perhaps they’ve all been used up? Why bother denying it? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/53 "2004-06-20T17:42:02Z")
Well, there was an actual shift in policy about a year or two ago, before which the government reports would simply refer to theoretical earthquakes that might occur. So yeah, while everyone knew that another earthquake would hit eventually, the official line was that there was no proof a new one would strike, so maybe if we all hope real hard and keep voting LDP, it would simply never happen. And looking at the handling of past crises and scandals, “why bother denying it?” is the question most like to be met with a confused stare, followed by murmurs of “it sounds like human language, but I haven’t the foggiest idea what it could mean.” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/54 "2004-06-20T18:00:28Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > I dunno. Strictly IME, earthquake-related codes are taken seriously around here. Things may be changing, and in fact I also have heard they have been. I was referring more to the historical pattern, and to the idea that just having the codes on paper doesn’t mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/55 "2004-06-21T02:58:03Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I’m guessing you’re originally from a non-shaky place. Yep. My hometown prides itself of sitting atop the most solid ground on Earth. (Whether this is actually true, I don’t know.) Also, **Sublight** is absolutely correct. What’s surreal is the phrasing. It’s never “if it happens”, but “when it happens x number of people will die.” It’s almost as though the earthquake already happened and we’re reading about it. At work, we’re given handouts about what to do _when_ the Great Tokai Earthquake happens. It even has a name already! ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/56 "2004-06-21T06:13:16Z")
Ugh, and those translation services: > [@](#): > > All your base are belong to us. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829/57 "2004-06-21T06:26:36Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > At work, we’re given handouts about what to do _when_ the Great Tokai Earthquake happens. It even has a name already! Not exactly an original name, though… Tokai, Nankai, Tonankai… My school held an assembly last week to discuss what to do in case the Nankai earthquake strikes (including lots of vivid stories told by the principal describing some of the deaths in the 1946 Nankai). Of course, my understanding is that here in Wakayama, even if you survive the earthquake you then get killed by the tsunami, so we’re pretty much all screwed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japan-you-are-hell-fuckin-sloppy/250829.md?page=2)