# Japanese culture experts, help me decode this situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 31, 2009, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170 "2009-12-31T07:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/81 "2010-01-04T06:43:04Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > According to the now fully awake resident Taiwanese, the spelling of “Adowa” is difficult since Taiwanese pronunciation is different. The “wa” is a nasial sound inbetween “wa” and “ga.” I may be mishearing, but I always thought of it as more of a glottal stop (using the soft palate) than a nasal sound. ETA: _not_ glottal stop. I forget the term for the soft palate voiced plosive, whatever the heck that might be. There are terms in Taiwan that may not be discriminatory per se, but kind of indicate a lack of education (or lack of class); calling someone “adoga” to me always sounds like calling someone “that colored fella” (if he were black). Likewise calling the aboriginal people “shandiren” (mountain people) rather than “yuanzhumin” (original inhabitants). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/82 "2010-01-04T08:02:19Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I’m kind of trying to wrap my head around your situation. College teacher at a low-ranked college in a small industrial town. In the past, this college has not been particularly pro-active when it comes to replacing departing teachers, especially for “non-essential” courses like oral English. I’ve seen students dutifully show up to empty classrooms for entire semesters, waiting for the new teacher who is coming “any day now.” Not sure if they get credit for those “classes” or not, but I suspect they do. Because the location and inability (unwillingness) to pay a competitive salary, the contract foreign teachers they do find are truly bottom-of-the-barrel types sent from the world’s sketchiest agency. They come with their fake degrees with the sole intent of trawling their classrooms for sex partners. Aside from the students they are currently banging, they have little interest in teaching. This has been true for the last eight or so contract teachers. So the students are not getting a real college course from any of these guys. Kind of a sad scene all around, but the students are bright and eager to learn. I think a lot of them see me as a positive female role model, and I like to think I can put a face on “foreigner” besides “man who is here to sleep with women ten years younger than himself.” I just feel like I’d be leaving them to the dogs if I left. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/83 "2010-01-04T08:28:57Z")
Makes sense, appreciate your sharing. Yeah, there are some dodgy characters in that scene; surprised that it’s happening in a real college rather than in a cram school, though. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/84 "2010-01-04T08:42:07Z")
Thanks for the language lesson, much appreciated 🙂 > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > “dot head” is not the same as “laowai” at all. 大鼻子 “big nose” is the same as “dot head.” There’s a difference. Have you been called “big nose” recently? One of my school teachers, who had been a missionary in China for years, had a huge nose even by Mediterranean standards. He wore his nickname of “Father Big Nose” with humor and pride. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/85 "2010-01-04T09:11:58Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I am, by no means, an expert in the Japanese language, but your use of the word “but” in the structure of your sentence is unfamiliar to me. I’d drop it and, as a guy, simply say 「すいません、英語は話せないだ」or 「すいません、英語は話せないだよ」to be a little more emphatic.　…not that you meant this to be a Japanese language lesson. Sorry for the hijack. Right, those would be more emphatic and direct. Which is why I would try to soften it. You know enough Japanese to know why indirect works wonders. BTW, the 1st “ga” is a kind of softening, generally useful as a space filler. Sort of “Excuse me, but …” where you are giving the person a chance to react. Less demanding, even in English then “Excuse me!” Soften, skip a beat. Try it anytime you use “sumimasen”. Or listen for others using it 🙂 It is really subtle, I know. But subtle always wins big points, and will separate you from the other gaijin fast. Learn keigo too and watch places like the wagashi shop open up. In fact, why not sort of hover in the shop and see if other customers use keigo or some other variation in politeness levels? Maybe that is all that happened… ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/86 "2010-01-04T09:27:18Z")
> [@EnginNerd](#): > > Oh, sure, the point is that I was joking 🙂 > Actually a funny story tangentially related to this. When I was visiting Germany a few years ago, I was hanging out in train/bus station waiting for my departure time and a group of Japanese tourists came up to me to ask directions about something, in German, which I know about 20 words of. They were absolutely floored that I responded in Japanese to them that I can’t speak German. I love it when I can mess with people like that, and we all had a good laugh about it (especially since I was generally as lost as they were!) I ahve responded more tan once to Japanese tourists in the US in Japanese. They were karma beneficiaries of Japanese who tried their best English onme in Japanese train stations when I was lost 🙂 > [@](#): > > I like how you think. My co-workers seem to think that ko (個) would be the proper counter, but that’s boring. Other options include: > 顆 or 果 - Small round things, jewels, hanko, fruits > 臼 - a counter specifically for mochi (who knew such a thing existed!) > > but using those alternate options would probably confuse a Japanese person just as much as myself. Maybe, or maybe the clientele is “expected” to use the refined terms in that store and that is where you went wrong? It is _wa_gashi after all, you gotta have wa! > [@](#): > > Well, quite a bit, actually. A few semesters in college, several Japanese friends, and a study abroad program. However, there are still definitely subtle differences that I don’t always get, which make a big difference and that’s why I made this thread. Thanks for it! Interesting to me even though I am too far removed these days. May I ask the nature of the work you are doing? I was heavily involved in software internationalization and localization and would not mind getting back into it at some point. > [@](#): > > Well, judging by the reaction I get when I can read _anything_ here, most Japanese people must think it’s simply amazing for a foreigner to decode anything in their language! For the record, I’m at the JLPT level 2 (but just barely made it to there… Level 1 remains a long-term goal that I’ll never probably reach since I have no plans of permanently residing in Japan) Wow that is very good! I never took those tests, but on the reading part, from various study material I had, I’d guess I was in that neighborhood too. Verbal, not so much because I didn’t live there, only business trips for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![EnginNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ea924/32.png) [@EnginNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnginNerd)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/87 "2010-01-04T10:09:22Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Thanks for it! Interesting to me even though I am too far removed these days. May I ask the nature of the work you are doing? I was heavily involved in software internationalization and localization and would not mind getting back into it at some point. I’m a computer engineer for a semiconductor development company. We recently expanded one of our labs here, so I’m here for a few months to help get the new equipment up and running and train new employees. It’s a U.S.-based company so everyone that works here knows English. My days start out in Japanese, and then I think everyone gets frustrated with me and we switch to English. 😃 Of course, outside of work, I’m 100% Japanese-speaking while I’m here. > [@not\_alice](#): > > Wow that is very good! I never took those tests, but on the reading part, from various study material I had, I’d guess I was in that neighborhood too. Verbal, not so much because I didn’t live there, only business trips for the most part. Well, I’m in same boat really. Mostly it’s a product of where I live (Colorado). I don’t have anyone to talk to, but get plenty of practice reading and listening. So I can understand pretty well when others talk or when I’m reading stuff, but I’m sure I sound like a bumbling moron when I speak. That’s why I’m glad the JLPT doesn’t have a speaking test! ---
**Author:** ![T.Slothrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@T.Slothrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Slothrop)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/88 "2010-01-05T06:45:16Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by China Guy Laowai by the way is an honorific compared to the more blunt waiguoren. Laowai is used a lot more than 25 years ago. Quote: Originally posted by Nava: Apologies for hijacking, but what would laowai mean? “whitey”? “foreigner”? Any chance of getting the Chinese Characters for “laowai” ? I am not familiar with this term. Is it similar to the construction of rat and tiger ? Thanks. Jon ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/89 "2010-01-05T07:32:45Z")
> [@t. Slothrop](#): > > quote: > Originally posted by china guy > laowai by the way is an honorific compared to the more blunt waiguoren. Laowai is used a lot more than 25 years ago. > > Quote: > Originally posted by nava: > Apologies for hijacking, but what would laowai mean? “whitey”? “foreigner”? > > Any chance of getting the chinese characters for “laowai” ? I am not familiar with this term. Is it similar to the construction of rat and tiger ? > > Thanks. > > Jon 老外 ---
**Author:** ![T.Slothrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@T.Slothrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Slothrop)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/90 "2010-01-05T09:19:01Z")
got it. thanks. Jon ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/91 "2010-01-05T10:10:46Z")
Lao wai would literally be old outside®. I would use it neutrally or slightly positively, although here it’s more common to use “ang mo lang”, or “hong mao ren”, literally “red haired/furred person”. That’s pretty neutral too, actually. A derogatory term for a foreigner would be, hmm… Gwei Lo, or “white ghost”. Much more feeling of disgust in that term. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/92 "2010-01-05T11:08:46Z")
老外 (lao3wai4) = 老外国人 (lao3wai4guo2ren2) 外宾 (wai4bin4) is the written form for a polite way to refer to a foreigner They all mean " foreigner" or “alien” and imply “non-Chinese” if one wants to get pendantic about it. Literally waiguoren means “outside country person” aka “a person from outside the country" aka “foreigner” aka “non-Chinese.” A good translator \*\*Croquantes \*\* understands that literal Chinese is usually not the correct translation. For example, Shang4hai3 aka Shanghai aka the city of Shanghai aka 上海 does not mean the literal translation of “on the sea.” It actually means “on the _way_ to the sea.” ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/93 "2010-01-05T11:32:03Z")
There are alot of non-neutral terms of disgust for foreigners, some more specific and some more political than others: 洋鬼子，黑鬼，日本鬼子，美国鬼子 (might even want to put 韩国走狗 up there. It’s making a comeback) They usually use “gui,” not “lao,” obviously. ---
**Author:** ![T.Slothrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@T.Slothrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Slothrop)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/94 "2010-01-06T07:10:02Z")
a Cantonese speaking girlfriend some years back used to refer to me (and all like me) as: “sei kuai lo”. She said it meant damn demon. I don’t speak Cantonese. I know the characters for kuai lo. any cantonese speakers can help on the sei ? 死 perhaps ? ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170/95 "2010-01-06T07:17:27Z")
> [@T.Slothrop](#): > > a Cantonese speaking girlfriend some years back used to refer to me (and all like me) as: “sei kuai lo”. She said it meant damn demon. I don’t speak Cantonese. I know the characters for kuai lo. any cantonese speakers can help on the sei ? 死 perhaps ? Probably 死鬼佬 Not a good thing to hear your girlfriend call you [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-culture-experts-help-me-decode-this-situation/523170.md?page=4)