# Japanese people making V sign in photos **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 30, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365 "2010-03-30T19:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/21 "2010-03-31T20:12:40Z")
Re. the British “V” – I thought it stood for “vag,” as in “vagina,” and the person doing it is basically calling [the photographer/paparazzi/people nearby/the whole world] a buncha cunts. Does anybody know if this rude gesture existed during WWII, when Winston Churchill often made the palm-out “V for victory” sign? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/22 "2010-04-01T05:29:09Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > Does anybody know if this rude gesture existed during WWII, when Winston Churchill often made the palm-out “V for victory” sign? Yes, see the Wikipedia link above. Initially the very aristocratic Churchill seems to have been unaware of the established meaning of this lower class gesture. Later he modified it so that the Victory sign is given palm outwards (the rude V sign is always palm in, and usually with an upward jerk). Your folk etymology, though tempting, seems unlikely. If it were that, why not a C sign? ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/23 "2010-04-01T05:40:05Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > They do it because everyone else does it. > > Why do we all smile when we get our picture taken? [Schrute] I never smile if I can help it… Showing one’s teeth is a submission signal in primates. When someone smiles at me, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life. [/Schrute] 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/24 "2010-04-01T05:51:06Z")
It’s just an imitation of the greatest man in the world. [http://www.gemzies.com/img\_photos/victory\_sign\_winston\_churchill\_01\_01c3836850bb384d0cad826a170acdc6\_490x350.png](http://www.gemzies.com/img_photos/victory_sign_winston_churchill_01_01c3836850bb384d0cad826a170acdc6_490x350.png) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/25 "2012-06-27T11:42:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Any Chinese tourist attraction is going to be full of young women in their best clothes posing as their sheepish looking boyfriends click thousands of pictures. Wow! This explains something I saw a few weeks ago when we were hanging out at the pier. An Asian looking couple—the girl dressed in what almost looked like lingerie and repeatedly posing while her boyfriend took dozens of pictures. After every few pictures, she’d take the camera and look through them to see if they met her approval. My wife and I thought it was extremely strange and wondered if she was putting together some kind of glamour portfolio. ---
**Author:** ![pdunderhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@pdunderhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdunderhill)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/26 "2012-06-27T13:16:34Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Yes, see the Wikipedia link above. Initially the very aristocratic Churchill seems to have been unaware of the established meaning of this lower class gesture. Later he modified it so that the Victory sign is given palm outwards (the rude V sign is always palm in, and usually with an upward jerk). > > Your folk etymology, though tempting, seems unlikely. If it were that, why not a C sign? Seconded back of hand facing others v. naughty, palm facing outwards at least in the UK is either a vaguely '60s ‘hippyish’ peace gesture, (pass the spliff man etc.) or an homage to Churchill in which case it means Victory. Can be very touchy in some societies when visitors misunderstand hand gestures! Peter ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/27 "2012-06-28T19:50:56Z")
> [@Soul](#): > > I once had a friend stationed on the Okinawa Naval Base who posted several pictures of himself in uniform with locals. Unfailingly, every Japanese man or woman in the photograph with him made the two-finger V symbol. I asked him what was up with that, and he told me that while he had no idea the guys on base got a kick out of thinking that it was them saying **“You bombed us this many times.”** > > Ridiculously insensitive and my laughing at it is on the long, long list I’m sure I’ll have read to me when I get to hell, but damn. I chuckled. Oh damn that’s funny. I shall think this from now on. Also I think I’ll grab an ice cream on my way to hell. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/28 "2012-06-28T20:54:44Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > That’s my wife to a T! I thought it was a bit strange, but I’ve gotten used to it by now. Although it drives me nuts to try to fit something large (like a big statue, say) in the same picture as my wife without either making my wife look tiny or chopping off most of the statue. 🙂 I would prefer to not be photographed at all, so my father in law the professional photographer drives me insane:( We have monument with no people pictures:D ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/29 "2012-06-28T21:02:48Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > Re. the British “V” – I thought it stood for “vag,” as in “vagina,” and the person doing it is basically calling [the photographer/paparazzi/people nearby/the whole world] a buncha cunts. > > Does anybody know if this rude gesture existed during WWII, when Winston Churchill often made the palm-out “V for victory” sign? It did, in fact Churchill had to be corrected (apparently it was a practise more common among the working class than the potential conservative PM class). The most popular (but still questionable) etymology is that British archers (Welsh if you ask a Welshman, English if you ask an Englishman) would often have their middle and index fingers cut off by their enemies (the English if you ask a Welshman, the French if you ask an Englishman), so the sign originated as a gesture that meant something along the lines of “haha, we still have our fingers, now kindly catch these yew sticks pointy end first”. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/30 "2012-06-28T21:03:21Z")
A famous example from a few years back- a youth pastor took a photo of one of the kids Alison Chang and put it under a Creative Commons license, Virgin Mobile used it on a bus stop ad in Australia. Her parents sued and the case was thrown out of court due to lack of jurisdiction [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/219/515961023_dd279b3fc0_b.jpg "Dump Your Pen Friend") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/sesh00/515961023/) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/31 "2012-06-29T01:45:28Z")
There’s a name for that Japanese V sign, but I can’t remember or find it. I thought it was something like _kawai_, but googling it shows that just means “cute.” ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/32 "2012-06-29T02:36:01Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > There’s a name for that Japanese V sign, but I can’t remember or find it. I thought it was something like _kawai_, but googling it shows that just means “cute.” AFAIK, it’s just called the “peace sign” (ピースサイン). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/33 "2012-06-29T02:37:42Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > AFAIK, it’s just called the “peace sign” (ピースサイン). How is that pronounced in Japanese? I’ve definitely heard a Japanese word for it, but maybe it’s just been “peace sign” in Japanese, and I didn’t catch on. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/34 "2012-06-29T02:46:02Z")
Some people claim it originated with American skater Janet Lynn in the 1972 Olympics in Sapporo: > **[V sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign#V_sign_in_photographs_of_Japanese)** > > The V sign is a hand gesture in which the index and middle fingers are raised and parted to make a V shape while the other fingers are clenched. It has various meanings, depending on the circumstances and how it is presented. > When displayed with the palm inward toward the signer, it can be an offensive gesture in some Commonwealth nations (similar to showing the middle finger), dating back to at least 1900. When given with the palm outward, it is to be read as a victory sign ("V for Victory");... > [@](#): > > The palm-outwards V sign is very commonly made by Japanese people, especially younger people, when posing for informal photographs. One account of this practice claims that during the 1972 Winter Olympics in Sapporo, Hokkaidō, American figure skater Janet Lynn stumbled into Japanese pop culture when she fell during a free-skate period, but continued to smile even as she sat on the ice. Though she placed only third in the competition, her cheerful diligence and persistence resonated with many Japanese viewers, making her an overnight foreign celebrity in Japan. Lynn, a peace activist, was repeatedly seen flashing the V sign in the Japanese media thereafter. Though the V sign was known of in Japan before Lynn used it there (from the post-World War II Allied occupation of Japan), she is credited by some Japanese for having popularized its use in amateur photographs. Somebody needs to dig up old snapshots of Japanese people, and see if flashing the peace sign suddenly became more prevalent after 1972. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/35 "2012-06-29T02:47:42Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > How is that pronounced in Japanese? I’ve definitely heard a Japanese word for it, but maybe it’s just been “peace sign” in Japanese, and I didn’t catch on. “piisu sain” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/36 "2012-06-29T03:35:11Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > “piisu sain” No, that’s definitely not what I heard. If I can think of it, I’ll pop in again. ---
**Author:** ![JessMagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@JessMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/37 "2012-06-29T03:46:20Z")
To add to comments on Asian photo culture: - Pictures of food that the person is about to eat. There are one or two of my facebook friends for whom I’m pretty sure I could accurately note down their complete dietary intake for the week. - The V sign, “super smiley happy fun pose” thing. This is huge in Asia, not just Japan. I think in a lot of cases, it’s done ironically now. - Cheesy “set-up” photos - eg. a group of friends standing on stairs so it looks like they’re all different heights Yeah, being a single white guy in Singapore, I’m friends with quite a few Asian girls on facebook… ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/38 "2012-06-29T04:18:27Z")
Yes it is an Asian thing – or at least East and Southeast Asia; dunno about Turkey – but from what I can tell, it seems accepted that it’s Japanese in origin. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/39 "2012-06-29T12:27:51Z")
> [@JessMagic](#): > > To add to comments on Asian photo culture: > > - Pictures of food that the person is about to eat. Not really limited to Asians. I can name probably at least 5 of my American Facebook friends (including my partner) that post pictures of food on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365/40 "2012-06-29T14:06:46Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Some people claim it originated with American skater Janet Lynn in the 1972 Olympics in Sapporo: > > [V sign - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign#V_sign_in_photographs_of_Japanese) > > Somebody needs to dig up old snapshots of Japanese people, and see if flashing the peace sign suddenly became more prevalent after 1972. The Japanese version of wiki claims it became popular in the 80s and was due to a tv commercial with a Japanese TV personality. I did see it in the early 80s in Japan, but I wasn’t here in the 60s.　However, a quick look at [pictures from the 60s](http://www.t-iwaya.com/his_pg/01.html) didn’t uncover any peace signs. Photos I’ve seen from the 50s and 60s tent to be fairly formal. It wouldn’t surprise me to see that the sign became popular in the late 70s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-people-making-v-sign-in-photos/534365.md?page=3)