# "Japanese" proverb: Floating enemies, river sitting **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602 "2010-07-22T14:44:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/1 "2010-07-22T14:44:28Z")
During my weekly Japanese class last night, an “old Japanese proverb” was quoted. You’ve probably heard it: > [@](#): > > If you sit by a river long enough, you’ll see the body of your enemy float by. The quote itself is eye-rolling, but didn’t seem very much in the spirit of the Japanese to me, and my teacher agreed. We both thought it sounded more like a Chinese, warrior-monk type of thing. So, I started to do some research to see if we could find something similar in the original Japanese. From what I have seen, I think this whole thing is bunk. In fact, I am not sure if there is any reference preceding its use in the 1993 movie _Rising Sun_, where Sean Connery utters the line: > [@](#): > > “The Japanese have a saying: if you sit by a river long enough, you’ll see the body of your enemy float by.” So, SDMBers, I turn to you. Can anyone find an actual Japanese proverb that says this or something similar? Can you find it in Japanese? Can you even find a pre-1993 usage or reference? I think I’m ready to chalk it up to a meme/UL/heard-it-from-a-friend-of-a-fried-who-used-to-be-an-old-Japanese-person type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/2 "2010-07-23T06:08:12Z")
There’s a Confucian saying in the Analects: > [@](#): > > The Master standing by a stream, said, “It passes on just like this, not ceasing day or night!” or literally, Confucius on river side says “passing/time like this no matter day night” ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/3 "2010-07-23T21:19:12Z")
Yeah, I haven’t been that much more successful in my research today, either. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/4 "2010-07-23T21:22:40Z")
Well, [this person](http://www.thecutelist.com/r/ChineseLanguage/comments/ci1kh/a_lmao_misinterpretation_if_you_sit_by_the_river/) agrees that that’s the proverb being misinterpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/5 "2010-07-26T15:00:25Z")
Fantastic find! Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/6 "2010-07-26T15:12:07Z")
Interestingly, I also found this reference from a biography of, of all people, Julie Andrews: > **[Julie Andrews](https://books.google.com/books?id=jeMeNZ2ATvQC&pg=PA249&lpg=PA249&dq=%22body%2Bof%2Byour%2Benemy%2Bfloat%2Bby%22&source=bl&ots=9yjin-_n4V&sig=wkNVc99plL_RJhm3jf5qyHS9ylY&hl=en&ei=bKRNTMuUGYaesQPy4LGrCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=%22body%20of%20your%20enemy%20float%20by%22&f=false)** > > Julie Andrews is the last of the great Hollywood musical stars, unequaled by any in her time.In My Fair Lady, Julie Andrews had the biggest hit on Broadway. As the title character in Mary Poppins, she won an Academy Award. And, in 1965, The Sound of... ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/7 "2010-07-26T15:44:27Z")
It reminds me of a saying by my grad school econ professor. “In the long run, everyone is dead.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/8 "2010-07-26T15:58:51Z")
There’s a saying attributed to a number of crowded downtown places - New York’s Times Square, State & Madison in Chicago, Hyde Park in London - that if you stand there long enough, sooner or later everybody in the world goes by. That saying has been around since I believe the end of the 19th century so it’s something in general culture that could easily be adapted into an aphorism about enemies. Especially if you combine it with Heraclitus’ “You cannot step twice into the same river.” ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/9 "2010-07-26T16:02:07Z")
Yeah, we agreed it would sound much more like a Japanese proverb if it was something like “If you wait by the river long enough, _everyone_ will float by.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/10 "2010-07-27T17:05:10Z")
It’d sound even more Japanese if it was “if you wait by the river long enough, eventually a Peach Boy will float by.” [“The Peach Boy” is a charming old Japanese fairy tale](http://www.japanippon.com/fairytales/momotaro.htm) in which an old, childless couple find a heaven-sent baby boy floating down a river in a giant peach. It’s not long before Momotaro (“Peach Boy”) sets off to rid the region of some pesky ogres living on an island not far away. On his journey, he gains some helpful animal & avian friends. Naturally, since Momotaro is an exceptional child/man/warrior figure (a real peach of a kid!), not to say armed with a fine katana sword, he succeeds bloodthirstily. It’s funny how different times & cultures can have myths or fairy tales about messianic or liberational leaders (the OT’s Moses comes to mind) who were discovered/saved floating in a river as foundling infants… ---
**Author:** ![Wanted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/779978/32.png) [@Wanted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wanted)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/11 "2011-10-11T22:01:23Z")
I believe its from the chinese book: The Art of War by Sun Tzu ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/12 "2011-10-11T22:29:13Z")
> [@Wanted](#): > > I believe its from the chinese book: The Art of War by Sun Tzu Why do you say this? The Art of War is easily searchable at Google Books and I see nothing like this saying, after searching for river, float, body, and enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/13 "2011-10-11T23:01:15Z")
Aww, my own zombie! How cute! Yeah, definitely not the Art of War. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/14 "2011-10-11T23:14:59Z")
A few places have described it at as an [INDIAN](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/star-jones/what-goes-around-comes-ar_b_84178.html) proverb. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/15 "2011-10-12T00:04:46Z")
Dot or feather? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/16 "2011-10-12T00:51:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Dot or feather? Totally stealing this line. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/17 "2011-10-12T01:01:12Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Totally stealing this line. 😃 From whom? Googling it brings up over 11 million hits. It’s old and omnipresent. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/18 "2011-10-12T01:09:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > From whom? Googling it brings up over 11 million hits. It’s old and omnipresent. Everything’s new to someone. I guess I got to be it tonight. I’m not surprised, mind, but it is the first time I’ve heard/read that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/19 "2011-10-12T01:15:44Z")
Rather like the line, “We owe this victory to the English public school system” being erroneously attributed to the Duke of Wellington. It doesn’t matter, he should have said it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602/20 "2011-10-12T01:47:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Rather like the line, “We owe this victory to the English public school system” being erroneously attributed to the Duke of Wellington. > It doesn’t matter, he should have said it anyway. …and of course there’s a prior thread on [thread=83685]‘This victory was won on the playing fields of Eton’[/thread]. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-proverb-floating-enemies-river-sitting/547602.md?page=2)