# Japanese whale whores **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021 "2010-01-07T12:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/281 "2010-02-10T23:36:12Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If you’re looking for vigilantism, look no further than the Japanese. No legally recognized court will stop the Sea Shepherds so they’ve decided to carry out their own justice and punishment which now involves attempted murder. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, THAT fits the vigilante definition you are looking for. I will repeat my point from earlier in this thread. I believe the whalers think they stand to gain from a day in court, even if they have to answer for a couple casualties. So ramming the SS ship is their way of saying “You either stop turning the blind eye to these vigilante clowns or we will make it so you cannot ignore it anymore”. Kill a couple clowns, go to court and finally put an end to SS harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/282 "2010-02-10T23:41:37Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Majority of Australian public agrees with you but we don’t command our coast guard. I can’t find it now but there was another recent poll showing that the majority of Australian’s favor stronger measures by our government to halt whaling in the Antarctic even if it harms us economically. > > google is failing me, can anyone find that one? Who gives a flying fuck what the Australian public thinks, there’s about 4 times as many Japs, most of whom are quite into the killing of whales (at least as much as the typical Australian genuinely cares… I suspect you’ll find the overwhelming majority of both nations to be pretty apathetic when it _really_ came to it) and the latter don’t even recognise the former’s claims to the water. The UK has land closer to the south pole than you lot ffs! I tell you if I were PM of Japan I’d just shoot these nuisances. I understand the Japanese do not have a conventional navy, but a self defence force which makes the situation more delicate. Well… it is time for them to exercise some self defence 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/283 "2010-02-11T01:01:49Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > First, the Japaneese are not the agressors in this “war”. So if anything they have a far greater claim to self defense than the SS. They most certainly are the aggressors. Australia has told them to stop. Period. The Australian PM Kevin Rudd has said: > [@](#): > > We, if we cannot resolve this matter diplomatically, will take international legal action. I’m serious about it, I would prefer to deal with it diplomatically, but if we cannot get there, that’s the alternative course of action. So there’s that. > [@](#): > > You logic also fails to acknowledge that no recognized court is taking action on the Japaneese or any other complaints from the SS. See above. I don’t know if Japan is in court now, but they’re going to be sooner or later. Well, they’ll blow it off I"m sure. > [@](#): > > The SS should be thankful that Japan has not seen fit to send along a naval vessel or two to assure that their people are not harassed. Naval crews are not going to respond as gently to being toyed with via SS methods, and actions that look like an attempt to bump or board will be met with far less gentle responses. I’d dearly love to see that, and Australia’s response. [QUOTE=Angry Lurker] There’s no real difference between minke whales and, say, cows to be honest. [/QUOTE] Not exactly. Whaling has been pretty much universally condemned except by the countries who engage in it and a podunk little country here and there no one’s actually ever heard of and that probably got paid off by Japan. Whaling is cruel, pure and simple. If cows were being hunted and slaughtered the way whales are, like harpooning them and dragging them around until they eventually are sort of dying while the hunters start slicing into them I’m guessing you wouldn’t be eating much steak. By the way, cows are farmed. Where’s the whale farm? And, don’t forget other whales like Humpbacks. They kill those too. Don’t get me started on the dolphins. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/284 "2010-02-11T01:39:23Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If cows were being hunted and slaughtered the way whales are, like harpooning them and dragging them around until they eventually are sort of dying while the hunters start slicing into them I’m guessing you wouldn’t be eating much steak. By the way, cows are farmed. Where’s the whale farm? And, don’t forget other whales like Humpbacks. They kill those too. Don’t get me started on the dolphins. Cows are on dry land. Whales are not. Makes a big difference on how they are harvested. Can’t vouch for the veracity of the wiki page, but here it is. [Humpback Whale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpback_whale). 80000 whales and Japan said they’d take 50, but didn’t. They could take 50 a year and never make a dent in the 80000. So, what’s the beef? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/285 "2010-02-11T03:24:09Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > I tell you if I were PM of Japan I’d just shoot these nuisances. I understand the Japanese do not have a conventional navy, but a self defence force which makes the situation more delicate. Interesting you support firing on unarmed protestors, guess you supported use of the National guard in the Kent State Massacre and the Chinese firing on protestors in Tiananmen as well? ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/286 "2010-02-11T03:36:22Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > the whaling fleet is an aggressor by chosing to hunt in waters declared protected by the IWC and by Australia As I posted above, in this case IWC protection doesn’t apply to Japan. And while I understand that as an Australian you probably see things differently, most of the world doesn’t recognize Australia as having any authority in those waters. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/287 "2010-02-11T03:36:40Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Cows are on dry land. Whales are not. Makes a big difference on how they are harvested. > > Can’t vouch for the veracity of the wiki page, but here it is. [Humpback Whale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpback_whale). > 80000 whales and Japan said they’d take 50, but didn’t. They could take 50 a year and never make a dent in the 80000. So, what’s the beef? As far as Humpbacks go, check Japan’s record, not just last year. I’m sure groups like Greenpeace & the Sea Shepherds have something to do with the fact they aren’t taking their usual variety and numbers of whales, endangered and not. As far as cows go, if we’re going to chuck morals and ethics and intellectualize things, then I suppose aborted human fetuses make a delicious treat. As people, we get to decide what’s wrong and what’s not. In the case of whales, we’ve decided it’s bad. “We” as in the majority of humanity. Just the way it is. We’re still evolving culturally and many, many things acceptable 100 years ago are not so much these days. Not eating whales would seem to be part of our evolution. I’m on that boat. Japan doesn’t need whale products and the government subsidizes a rightfully dying industry. Let it die. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/288 "2010-02-11T03:41:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ::shrug:: > > They got Al Capone for tax evasion. > > Whatever works. But it doesn’t work, since you don’t nail nations on technicalities when there are no enforcement mechanisms that can be brought to bear. Pursuing the environmental impact angle is not going to stop whaling. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/289 "2010-02-11T03:48:00Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > As far as cows go, if we’re going to chuck morals and ethics and intellectualize things, then I suppose aborted human fetuses make a delicious treat. As people, we get to decide what’s wrong and what’s not. Have you ever noticed how closely a fetus that’s just a few weeks old resembles a shrimp? I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/290 "2010-02-11T06:56:50Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > But it doesn’t work, since you don’t nail nations on technicalities when there are no enforcement mechanisms that can be brought to bear. There are enforcement mechanisms, Australia has considered several of them. The reason they haven’t yet persued them is pretty clear from this page: [http://www.innovation.gov.au/Section/AboutDIISR/FactSheets/Pages/Australia’sExportsFactSheet.aspx](http://www.innovation.gov.au/Section/AboutDIISR/FactSheets/Pages/Australia'sExportsFactSheet.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/291 "2010-02-11T07:17:01Z")
While Australia’s trade position is no doubt an issue, the simple fact is that Australia would always be very reluctant to take strong naval action in waters that it has no authority over outside of an internationally unrecognised, self declared jurisdiction grab. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/292 "2010-02-11T09:36:44Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Have you ever noticed how closely a fetus that’s just a few weeks old resembles a shrimp? I’m just sayin’. If God didn’t want us to eat fetuses, he wouldn’t have made them the size of canapes. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/293 "2010-02-11T09:56:23Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > aborted human fetuses make a delicious treat How do you know? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/294 "2010-02-11T11:48:56Z")
What, you mean you don’t know that? Weird. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/295 "2010-02-11T11:54:19Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > While Australia’s trade position is no doubt an issue, the simple fact is that Australia would always be very reluctant to take strong naval action in waters that it has no authority over outside of an internationally unrecognised, self declared jurisdiction grab. Um, the Antarctic Treaty is pretty well recognised, there’s two issues here, there is the Southern Ocean Sanctuary and the Australian Antartic Territory waters. Japanese whaling fleet has been recorded taking whales in AAT waters, and if Australia did take legal action it would be about whaling in AAT waters, not in the SOS. > **[Territorial claims in Antarctica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_of_Antarctica)** > > Seven sovereign states – Argentina, Australia, Chile, France, New Zealand, Norway, and the United Kingdom – have made eight territorial claims in Antarctica. These countries have tended to place their Antarctic scientific observation and study facilities within their respective claimed territories; however, a number of such facilities are located outside of the area claimed by their respective countries of operation, and countries without claims such as Belgium, China, India, Italy, Japan, Poland... Take note that the US, UK, most EU countries and Russia do recognise Australia’s claims to AAT. list here: > **[Antarctic Treaty System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System)** > > The Antarctic Treaty and related agreements, collectively known as the Antarctic Treaty System (ATS), regulate international relations with respect to Antarctica, Earth's only continent without a native human population. It was the first arms control agreement established during the Cold War, designating the continent as a scientific preserve, establishing freedom of scientific investigation, and banning military activity; for the purposes of the treaty system, Antarctica is defined as all the ... ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/296 "2010-02-11T12:52:38Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Take note that the US, UK, most EU countries and Russia do recognise Australia’s claims to AAT. > > list here: > [Antarctic Treaty System - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System) Signing the Antarctic Treaty does not mean that you recognize any territorial claims on Antarctica. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/297 "2010-02-11T13:06:38Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Signing the Antarctic Treaty does not mean that you recognize any territorial claims on Antarctica. Technically true but de facto it is the defining treaty for claims to Antarctica and there’s never been a challenge to it. Eg its the best we’ve got and no-one’s arguing. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/298 "2010-02-11T13:58:25Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Technically true but de facto it is the defining treaty for claims to Antarctica and there’s never been a challenge to it. Eg its the best we’ve got and no-one’s arguing. No one typically argues with nations who make claims that will largely be ignored when it is convenient to do so. Not many people are afraid of the repercussions of maybe, slightly ticking off Australia. This situation is an excellent example of that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/299 "2010-02-11T14:25:42Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > But it doesn’t work, since you don’t nail nations on technicalities when there are no enforcement mechanisms that can be brought to bear. > > Pursuing the environmental impact angle is not going to stop whaling. Well, “doesn’t work” inasmuch as you cannot arrest a country. That said countries generally try to abide by their agreements. They may be able to give the world the finger and walk away but diplomatically that is a last resort. Other countries may then pull out of some agreement with Japan that Japan cares about and say, “You do not abide by your agreements why do you think we should?” Technicality or not Japan is a signatory to various agreements. It seems they could still go whaling if they did the appropriate environmental impact for having their ships there. Likely that would be time consuming and expensive so they do not do it but it is what Japan has already agreed to. So again, whatever works. Can’t get them on one angle get them on another. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021/300 "2010-02-11T14:46:42Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Australian public largely doesn’t see it that way, the whaling fleet is an aggressor by chosing to hunt in waters declared protected by the IWC and by Australia. Painting “research” on the side of your vessel doesn’t make it so. > > poll here on Australian opinions: > [http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100115-1.html](http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100115-1.html) > > 8 out of 10 of us disagree with the governments response. I’d love to see Australia take Japan to court or for an Australian destroyer to patrol the SOS to protect it from poachers. Since thats not happening I support the SSCS instead. > [@coremelt](#): > > Majority of Australian public agrees with you but we don’t command our coast guard. I can’t find it now but there was another recent poll showing that the majority of Australian’s favor stronger measures by our government to halt whaling in the Antarctic even if it harms us economically. So did I miss the news story where Australia became a military dictatorship sometime in the recent past? If 80% of you really disagree with the govt’s response, why don’t you force your government to do something about it, or vote in politicians who will? Or is it one of those “Yeah, I disagree with what the government is doing in this one case, but it’s not actually important enough to actually drag my ass to the polls and do something about it.” issues? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whale-whores/524021.md?page=16)