# Japanese Whaling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051 "2016-03-24T20:52:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/21 "2016-03-25T05:04:23Z")
How else are they going to research how the whales taste? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/22 "2016-03-25T05:11:30Z")
> [@pool](#): > > How else are they going to research how the whales taste? Ah, so in 2082 perhaps a paper will be released on 100 Years of Annual Whale Tastings: _Subtle Variations on a Theme, 1982-2082_ :p. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/23 "2016-03-25T05:38:59Z")
I’d say that the majority of reasearch into fish quantity is done by the fishery. How long does it take to fill quotas. How many boats are fishing, average catch, success rates. All that information factors into the health of the fishery. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/24 "2016-03-25T07:59:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know so much about it being related to Buddhism, but the Japanese really started eating whale as part of their diet after World War II. To counteract the food shortages, the occupation government bought some whaling ships, and used whale meat in school lunches. Japan’s not starving anymore, and hardly anybody actually eats whale nowadays, but I think a lot of why Japan hunted whales for so long was pretty much just nostalgia. Yes, it’s an interesting situation from that perspective. Little history of whaling (mostly small coastal towns hunting smaller dolphins/porpoises close to the coast), and the meat is not popular. Up until 2012 about three-quarters of the meat ended up in an ever-growing storage mountain. So the government has to greatly subsidize the industry, and then try to promote the consumption of the meat. (They even stage events where officials eat whale meat publicity as ostensibly promoting the ‘scientific whaling programme’ 😕). > [@](#): > > the Minke whale isn’t exactly rare, and the whale hunts don’t really hurt anything. Well, the whale. Personally I would agree that if the whale is not endangered and is killed relatively humanely I would have no problem with it. I’m reading conflicting things on whether the latter is the case, but certainly it seems to be a lot slower in the majority of cases than a bolt gun with cattle. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/25 "2016-03-25T09:18:45Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > I like whales. I do not like to see them killed. But I also realize that this is an entirely emotional attachment that others have no obligation to share. From a rational perspective whales are mammals. So are pigs. If I am willing to kill pigs for food, I have a hard time justifying to forbid others to kill whales for the same reason. > The issue is different, if the whale hunt is threatening the preservation of a species or if, as seems to be the case with Japanese whaling, it is in violation of an international agreement. But barring that, I can hardly say more than “I do not like it.” I’ve never really understood the international outcry about the Japanese hunting and eating non-endangered whales. I’ve got no problem with it, personally. The Japanese don’t go around telling us not to eat ducks or rabbits, so who genuinely cares if the Japanese want to kill a small and sustainable number of whales of a species which isn’t anywhere near being endangered? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/26 "2016-03-25T10:53:35Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > So if you said “I want to eat meat tonight!” and your spouse cooked a nice piece of trout, you’d say “exactly what I wanted!”? > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I doubt most people would say that, simply because it would be such a large scope. But yes, that would be fine. Indeed, if we had had fish the past 7 days and I was tired of it, I would not say “let’s have meat tonight”, because the last 7 days meals did have meat. I’d say something like “let’s have red meat tonight”. I wouldn’t have a good word to mean “meat other than from a fish”. Perhaps we need to make up a new word? I propose “landflesh”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/27 "2016-03-25T11:05:07Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Is there nothing that can be done to stop this? It just seems ridiculous that Japan feels the need to kill so many whales. The Sea Shepherds do a pretty good job of disrupting the hunt most years using non-violent direct action. If you really want to stop it, donate money to the Sea Shepherds. They also have other good campaigns aimed at shutting down poachers in sensitive areas, not just Japanese whaling. > **[Home](https://seashepherd.org/)** > > Sea Shepherd’s sole mission is to protect and conserve the world’s oceans and marine wildlife. We work to defend all marine wildlife, from whales and dolphins, to sharks and rays, to fish and krill, without exception. Oh and the “research” excuse is laughable. The Japanese whaling ships are factory slaughter ships, they do zero research and somehow all the meat ends up on sale. Most Japanese people don’t even like whale, its foul and tasteless. The only reason they refuse to stop is some kind of national pride that they won’t give in to western pressure over an item of “tradition”. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/28 "2016-03-25T11:34:50Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > {…} I wouldn’t have a good word to mean “meat other than from a fish”. Perhaps we need to make up a new word? I propose “landflesh”. 😃 Cismeat! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/29 "2016-03-25T11:37:32Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > That usage is getting less common over time, and it’s fairly uncommon now. Mmm, I loves me some salmon meat! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/30 "2016-03-25T14:06:46Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The Sea Shepherds do a pretty good job of disrupting the hunt most years using non-violent direct action. You and I have different definitions of non-violent. I see the Sea Shepherds as hell-of-violent. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/31 "2016-03-25T14:26:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You and I have different definitions of non-violent. I see the Sea Shepherds as hell-of-violent. And even staunch opponents of Japanese whaling agree with you there. The following is from the website of [Greenpeace](https://web.archive.org/web/20100901064525/http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/news-and-blogs/news/paul-watson-sea-shepherd-and): > [@](#): > > We passionately want to stop whaling, and will do so peacefully. That’s why we won’t help Sea Shepherd. Greenpeace is committed to non-violence and we’ll never, ever, change that; not for anything. If we helped Sea Shepherd to find the whaling fleet we’d be responsible for anything they did having got that information, and history shows that they’ve used violence in the past, in the most dangerous seas on Earth. For us, non-violence is a non-negotiable, precious principle. Greenpeace will continue to act to defend the whales, but will never attack or endanger the whalers. > > We differ with Paul Watson on what constitutes violence. He states that nobody has ever been harmed by a Sea Shepherd action. But the test of non-violence is the nature of your action, not whether harm results or not. There are many acts of violence – for example, holding a gun to someone’s head – which result in no harm. That doesn’t change their nature. We believe that throwing butryic acid at the whalers, dropping cables to foul their props, and threatening to ram them in the freezing waters of the Antarctic constitutes violence because of the potential consequences. The fact that the consequences have not been realized is irrelevant. > > In addition to being morally wrong, we believe the use of violence in protection of whales to be a tactical error. If there’s one way to harden Japanese public opinion and ensure whaling continues, it’s to use violent tactics against their fleet. It’s wrong because it puts human lives at risk, and it’s wrong because it makes the whalers stronger in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/32 "2016-03-25T15:18:07Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve never really understood the international outcry about the Japanese hunting and eating non-endangered whales. I’ve got no problem with it, personally. The Japanese don’t go around telling us not to eat ducks or rabbits, so who genuinely cares if the Japanese want to kill a small and sustainable number of whales of a species which isn’t anywhere near being endangered? I gather it has something to do with the general perception that cetaceans are generally both intelligent to the point of plausible sentience as well as endangered. The public generally takes a dim view to the killing of animals considered intelligent as opposed to those considered dumber than a sack of bricks. I also strongly doubt that the average Westerner has ever eaten whale and as such struggles to perceive them as food. I have more than a few acquaintances (who, to be fair, are not the brightest bulbs) who are convinced that the Japanese hunt whales for little more than tawdry sport. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/33 "2016-03-25T15:50:48Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Oh and the “research” excuse is laughable. The Japanese whaling ships are factory slaughter ships, they do zero research and somehow all the meat ends up on sale. We’re not talking about biology research here. The goal of research whaling is to assess whether commercial whaling can resume without impacting the whale population. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/34 "2016-03-25T16:37:00Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > So if you said “I want to eat meat tonight!” and your spouse cooked a nice piece of trout, you’d say “exactly what I wanted!”? Well, I can’t imagine saying the first statement, since it’s so unspecific. And most of our dinners contain meat, so it’d be like saying “Let’s eat tonight”. No content. But, I do consider fish to be meat, so, sure, it would meet my incredibly vague expectations. I will admit that there are some people who use “meat” to mean “red meat”. I never claimed it didn’t happen, I simply claimed that that usage is becoming less common. But we can play the example game all day. If someone said “I don’t eat meat”, would you plan trout for the menu? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/35 "2016-03-25T17:45:19Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I will admit that there are some people who use “meat” to mean “red meat”. I never claimed it didn’t happen, I simply claimed that that usage is becoming less common. > > But we can play the example game all day. If someone said “I don’t eat meat”, would you plan trout for the menu? The Jewish dietary laws come to mind. Meat means mammalian meat. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/36 "2016-03-25T18:22:16Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve never really understood the international outcry about the Japanese hunting and eating non-endangered whales. I’ve got no problem with it, personally. The Japanese don’t go around telling us not to eat ducks or rabbits, so who genuinely cares if the Japanese want to kill a small and sustainable number of whales of a species which isn’t anywhere near being endangered? Whales are generally believed to be smarter, and thus more human, than our ordinary meat animals. They sing to each other, in a way that may be conveying semantic content (talking). Of course, the same may be true of elephants, and pigs are pretty bright. But I think that’s the big difference. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Jewish dietary laws come to mind. Meat means mammalian meat. Except in the Jewish dietary laws, whales are fish, not “animals”. Specifically, they are fish that have no scales (and arguably, no fins) so they aren’t kosher fish, but they are fish. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/37 "2016-03-25T18:29:38Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > They have permission to hunt and kill whales for research. And that’s what they’re doing. Where is the dishonesty? What research are they doing? Link to scientific papers published by the Japanese whaling industry. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/38 "2016-03-25T18:35:12Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > The non-historical justification for the whaling is that Minke whales are not a threatened species; it’s currently classified as [Least Concern](http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2474/0). And that would be nice if that’s all the Japanese killed. But they dont: > **[Whaling in Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan)** > > Japanese whaling, in terms of active hunting of whales, is estimated by the Japan Whaling Association to have begun around the 12th century. However, Japanese whaling on an industrial scale began around the 1890s when Japan started to participate in the modern whaling industry, at that time an industry in which many countries participated. > During the 20th century, Japan was heavily involved in commercial whaling. This continued until the International Whaling Commission (IWC) moratorium on co... \* …detected migratory whales such as the endangered Humpback[106][107] and endangered Gray whales,[108][109] as well as the threatened Finback whale,[110][111] and the non-endangered Bryde’s whales.[112]\* and :_In Japan, not only humpback, minke, and sperm whales, but many other smaller toothed whales, including species such as western gray, the endangered North Pacific right, and northern fin whales have been targets of illegal captures utilizing harpoons for dolphin hunts or intentionally drive whales into nets. Reports are later filed with administrative organs or research institutions as cases of entanglements where fishermen tried their best to save whales. Products from internationally protected species’ meat can also be found on markets even today mostly originating as “by-products” of entanglements, and there has been a case in which it was revealed that at least some humpbacks with other species were illegally hunted in EEZs of anti-whaling nations such as off the coast of Mexico or South Africa, and the whalers tried to transport the catch to Japan by hiring vessels from other countries and even trying to go on overland routes within other nations.[115] Japan kept official hunts of endangered species such as North Pacific right whales until 1994[116]|, but intentional by-catches of endangered still continue to present in unknown scale_s. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/39 "2016-03-25T18:44:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What research are they doing? Link to scientific papers published by the Japanese whaling industry. [http://www.icrwhale.org/DocumentList.html](http://www.icrwhale.org/DocumentList.html) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/40 "2016-03-25T18:49:17Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Except in the Jewish dietary laws, whales are fish, not “animals”. Specifically, they are fish that have no scales (and arguably, no fins) so they aren’t kosher fish, but they are fish. Neither do they chew their cud or have split hooves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051.md?page=3)