# Japanese Whaling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051 "2016-03-24T20:52:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/41 "2016-03-25T19:22:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And that would be nice if that’s all the Japanese killed. But they dont: > > [Whaling in Japan - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan) > \* > …detected migratory whales such as the endangered Humpback[106][107] and endangered Gray whales,[108][109] as well as the threatened Finback whale,[110][111] and the non-endangered Bryde’s whales.[112]\* > > and :_In Japan, not only humpback, minke, and sperm whales, but many other smaller toothed whales, including species such as western gray, the endangered North Pacific right, and northern fin whales have been targets of illegal captures utilizing harpoons for dolphin hunts or intentionally drive whales into nets. Reports are later filed with administrative organs or research institutions as cases of entanglements where fishermen tried their best to save whales. Products from internationally protected species’ meat can also be found on markets even today mostly originating as “by-products” of entanglements, and there has been a case in which it was revealed that at least some humpbacks with other species were illegally hunted in EEZs of anti-whaling nations such as off the coast of Mexico or South Africa, and the whalers tried to transport the catch to Japan by hiring vessels from other countries and even trying to go on overland routes within other nations.[115] Japan kept official hunts of endangered species such as North Pacific right whales until 1994[116]|, but intentional by-catches of endangered still continue to present in unknown scale_s. Holy Cow! That ain’t good at all. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/42 "2016-03-25T21:08:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Understanding the Japanese side of things requires understanding a peculiarity of the Japanese. > > Many centuries ago, the Japanese became Buddhist. As part of this, there was a drive towards vegetarianism. But, being an Island country where most of their food came from the sea, this wasn’t very practical. So, fish and other sea creatures were declared “vegetables”. The word “meat” in Japanese excludes sea life. > > And in modern day, the Japanese have no sense that the creatures of the sea are thinking creatures. They’re just food. Their whole diet depends on eating things from the sea. It’s advantageous for them to think of sea life as being mindless. > > And thus you get things like slicing pieces of “meat” off of live, moving fish being a practice that no one bats an eyelash over, as it gives you the freshest food. > > Basically, to the Japanese, trying to tell them to not hunt whales is like trying to tell Americans that they should stop killing asparagus. There’s a large hurdle that needs to be overcome first. People who want to stop the Japanese from doing this need to focus less on the “killing vegetables” part of it, like that film of the dolphins being killed in that harbor, and instead focus on publicizing scientific studies on animal cognition. I don’t agree that there’s such a severe gap between understanding human pain and animal pain right now. Its 2016, I cannot believe a significant population can look at a suffering animal and think its the same as a plant. My belief is that they downplay the suffering due to anger at an outside agency telling them what to do ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/43 "2016-03-25T21:15:56Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Is there nothing that can be done to stop this? It just seems ridiculous that Japan feels the need to kill so many whales. There was an interesting article on the BBC web site last month about Japanese whaling. The Japanese people they talked to seemed to accept that whaling would die out some time in the next 10 or 20 years; the main reasons for the government to keep it alive now are to avoid the stigma of being the party that fired a bunch of employees in the whaling department and to buy a few votes in the districts that get some money from whaling. > **[Japan and the whale](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35397749)** > > It is probably the one issue that brings more international condemnation on Japan than any other. The BBC's Rupert Wingfield- Hayes asks why Japan keeps on whaling? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/44 "2016-03-25T21:36:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Neither do they chew their cud or have split hooves. You seem to have missed my point. It doesn’t matter whether fish chew their cud, and of course fish doubt have hooves. Under Jewish law, whales are fish, not animals. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/45 "2016-03-25T23:22:09Z")
As far as I know the general Norwegian view is that the Japanese are uncomfortably lax in harvesting only non-endangered whales. Basically, there is a feeling they go for endangered and non-endangered species equally. Rather letting the side down, really. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/46 "2016-03-26T00:19:55Z")
I do wonder if the pressure from the West is making it _harder_ to stop research whaling. They can’t stop without looking like they’re capitulating to other countries. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/47 "2016-03-26T01:24:08Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You seem to have missed my point. It doesn’t matter whether fish chew their cud, and of course fish doubt have hooves. Under Jewish law, whales are fish, not animals. My point is that they are treif and safe from Jews no matter what. 4,000 (or is it 5,000) years ago, most folks believed them to be fish. 🙂 To be Kosher, a fish must have scales and fins. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/48 "2016-03-26T03:05:10Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The Sea Shepherds do a pretty good job of disrupting the hunt most years using non-violent direct action. If you really want to stop it, donate money to the Sea Shepherds. 2007 wasn’t all that long ago. Ramming a ship isn’t non-violent. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/49 "2016-03-26T03:54:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My point is that they are treif and safe from Jews no matter what. > 4,000 (or is it 5,000) years ago, most folks believed them to be fish. 🙂 > > To be Kosher, a fish must have scales and fins. definitely treif! In some sense “people believed whales to be fish 4000 years ago”. In another sense, there is more than one way to segment the living creatures into “buckets”, and there’s nothing wrong with “those that live in water” vs. “warm blooded with wings” vs. “vermin” vs. “other big stuff that walks around”, which is pretty much how the Bible does it. No, it doesn’t match evolutionary biology, but that doesn’t make it an invalid segmentation of life. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/50 "2016-03-26T03:58:16Z")
(the biblical segmentation of plants doesn’t match modern classification, either. it matters for which blessing you say before eating the plant, mostly.) ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/51 "2016-03-27T14:26:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > 2007 wasn’t all that long ago. Ramming a ship isn’t non-violent. I don’t accept that damaging property is violence . The sea shepherds do not deliberately try to injure people. they try to disrupt the hunt and destroy the commercial value if the catch , by throwing rancid butter at the meat on deck and other tactics. Whatever you Think of their tactics they are effective , some years the Japanese catch no whales because of the sea shepherds . I regularly donate money to them and support their methods . ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/52 "2016-03-27T14:41:49Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I don’t accept that damaging property is violence . The sea shepherds do not deliberately try to injure people. Let’s say I disagreed with the bill my Governor is going to sign today. So as he is leaving home in the morning, I ram his car with mine. I’m not trying hurt him, I’m just trying to stop him from going to his office. Would you consider this a non-violent protest? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/53 "2016-03-27T15:07:50Z")
Sea shepherds deny that the ramming was deliberate. Why should you trust the whalers to tell the truth ? Anyway I’m not interested in an argument over the definition of violence. The op asked what could be done to stop Japanese whaling. The sea shepherds are effective , donating to them is probably the best thing you can do to stop whaling. They’ve been going for 30 years and been taken to court many many times but mostly they win, and they’re still doing it. They are also meticulous to video everything from as many angles as possible in case of legal issues . ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/54 "2016-03-27T15:51:51Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Sea shepherds deny that the ramming was deliberate. Why should you trust the whalers to tell the truth ? Why should you trust the “protesters” any more than the whalers? > [@](#): > > Anyway I’m not interested in an argument over the definition of violence. The op asked what could be done to stop Japanese whaling. The sea shepherds are effective , donating to them is probably the best thing you can do to stop whaling. My impression (based on reading Japanese news) is that they have been “effective” in the same way Al Qaeda terrorists have been. The Japanese public don’t care much about the actual issue, but they do care that their ships are attacked by foreigners. They also care that their practice is attacked by foreigners who (they feel) don’t understand their culture. The Japanese public is not pro-whaling, it’s anti-foreign-meddling. Politicians take advantage and pander to this public sentiment by keeping the whaling program alive, fighting for whaling rights and vilifying anti-whaling organizations (not just Sea Shepherd). ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/55 "2016-03-27T20:34:45Z")
Sea shepherds have never killed anyone in 30 years of operations and they never intend to cause injury to people, slightly different from al Qaeda. Try reading Australian news coverage of the sea shepherds and you’ll get a slightly less biased view of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/56 "2016-03-27T20:48:35Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Sea shepherds deny that the ramming was deliberate. Why should you trust the whalers to tell the truth ? Anyway I’m not interested in an argument over the definition of violence. The op asked what could be done to stop Japanese whaling. The sea shepherds are effective , donating to them is probably the best thing you can do to stop whaling. They’ve been going for 30 years and been taken to court many many times but mostly they win, and they’re still doing it. They are also meticulous to video everything from as many angles as possible in case of legal issues . However meticulous they may be - it did not do them any good in the US, where their actions are considered acts of piracy as decided by the [9th district US Court of Appeals:](http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2013/02/25/1235266.pdf) > [@](#): > > You don’t need a peg leg or an eye patch. When you ram ships; hurl glass containers of acid; drag metal-reinforced ropes in the water to damage propellers and rudders; launch smoke bombs and flares with hooks; and point high-powered lasers at other ships, you are, without a doubt, a pirate, no matter how high-minded you believe your purpose to be. You may not want to get into it, but the question of whether or not the Shepherds are violent is not irrelevant. It is, among other things, the reason why more moderate environmentalists distance themselves from them. ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/57 "2016-03-27T20:52:26Z")
Never mind their ramming of ships in Antarctic waters - the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has been known to strap limpet mines to ships in port. _They literally bomb ships._ Japanese whalers are at best playing footsie with international laws and conventions, but that doesn’t somehow legalize strapping explosives to ships, or change the fact that Paul Watson is 12 different kinds of crazy. The way to stop it is _not_ to fund a sociopath who openly suggested that the Tōhoku earthquake was divine retribution. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/58 "2016-03-27T21:33:18Z")
> [@Sampsiceramos](#): > > Never mind their ramming of ships in Antarctic waters - the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has been known to strap limpet mines to ships in port. _They literally bomb ships._ Again, 30+ years of operations and they’ve never injured anyone. They used an underwater charge to sink a ship in port, its in no way shape or form what you are trying to give the mental image of when you saw “they bomb ships”. No one was even injured in the Sierra incident. Paul Watson is possibly a sociopath, but he’s the sort of sociopath the world needs and he gets results. Anyway he is no longer the President of Sea Shepherds or a captain of one of the ships, that’s now Pritam Singh and Siddharth Chakravarty respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/59 "2016-03-28T00:05:28Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Sea shepherds have never killed anyone in 30 years of operations and they never intend to cause injury to people, slightly different from al Qaeda. Try reading Australian news coverage of the sea shepherds and you’ll get a slightly less biased view of them. If by “less biased” you mean “Sea Shepherd is awesome and anyone who doesn’t support them is an awful whale-hater”, of course. I don’t support Sea Shepherd at all. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051/60 "2016-03-28T00:49:16Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Paul Watson is possibly a sociopath, but he’s the sort of sociopath the world needs and he gets results. I don’t think that word means what you think it means. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/japanese-whaling/750051.md?page=4)